I'm very proud of you, and I'm so sorry I am not on your intellect level, but I really did not under stand much of what you posted here. I will say I never gave Mangini credit because I mentioned he was part of something, more of you made up nonsense, whether I point it out or not. Sorry, I do not buy into Mangini playing favorites, he is part of the regime that drafted Clemens, and you write that off as nothing, which I think is stupid. Perhaps I am wrong, but perhaps you made a mistake here and Clemens has a little something to do with why Chad started the last 2 years. I know for the 9th time there was no competition last year, the coaches made a mistake as to why they chose not to have one, and Clemens did not change their minds in camp, another mistake. Kendal has nothing to do with this, I already said in post 1 I did not agree with every move they make, I guess you have not got that. My fault my posting is poor, maybe I should think of cute names for the players on the team I root for.
Looking down the road, there are three basic scenarios, with a major variation possible in one of them that is at the heart of the controversy we are discussing here. The three are: 1. Clemens so clearly outperforms Chad in camp that even the Chad Fans agree he should start. 2. Clemens sucks so bad in camp that even the Chad Realists don't want Clemens to start. Now of course that means we as fans will have been monstrously ill served by this CS and FO, since they failed to bring onto the team someone at least capable of dethroning such a lousy Qb as Chad. But with respect to the limited issue of who to play going forward, either of the two would by definition not stir controversy. That leaves: 3. No clear cut winner. Now, again I think that would leave the FO and CS up for criticism, but staying on the question what to do next, who to start, this is where we will really see what Mangini is made of, how he performs his role. I hope I am wrong, and it may not come to that, but I fear in that situation Mangini will pick Chad. When I think Chad and not Clemens should have that burden of proof. We won't know the answer to this until sometime over the next three months. And not in the next few weeks. But that pretty much is what we are talking about here.
I never said there was one, I said Clemens did not change their minds about starting Chad in camp. No shocker, you did not catch on yet.
Ok but is it not true that neither Chad nor Clemens gave them reason to change their way of thinking in camp?
Every one who does not see things exactly your way is not a "Chad fan." I root for the Jets, and for the good of everybody I hope Clemens can beat out "Ole girlie arm" The fact that he has not been handed the job, makes me think it may have more to do with him and less a conspiracy that's all. I hope Clemens starts and has a great year, I just have not seen so much that makes me say he will.
Is it not true that Pennington sucks donkey dick at throwing a 15-20 yard out? Your rhetorical question is pointless. You're suggesting that Clemens should have somehow won a competition that did not exist. Good job. Please detail what he would have had to have done to win this non-existent competition.
You are missing my point, I never said there was a competition last season. I never denied or ignored Chad's deficiencies, but that's all you Chad bashers can come up any time someone does not agree with your conspiracy theories. You know what you are right, Chad looked horrible all camp, and Clemens was a god. Management just could not see it, they were hell bent on starring the worse of the 2 QB's and Coles bullied them into it to boot. Suddenly the big bang theory is starting to make sense too.
I haven't thought much of Chad since that putrid performance against the Steelers in the playoffs. 06 did not change my mind. He had some awful games, and only did well against the weak sisters, the sole exception being the NE game in Foxboro where I assume the Pats got their understanding of the Jets signals mixed up. Otherwise could not play competitively with winning teams, and got tossed out of the playoffs by a so so Jville team. Penny had nearly as many ints and TD's, and to do that on the way to Comeback Player of hte Year makes a mockery of that "award". But that's not the point. Chad did not beat out Clemens that year. The year before was no clear competition, either. Clemens was a rookie and the Jets brought in Ramsey, a former first round pick and starter for the Skins. So, Chad has NEVER beaten Clemens out in any meaningful sense. I hope we at least have that issue resolved here. Jade, I can see you are the kind of poster who just keeps posting and posting, even while not accomplishing much. Honestly I don't want to engage in tit for tat with you on the level of personal attack that you seem to feel comfortable with. But ftr you did refer to Mangini as having rings, as if that alone makes him some sort of unquestioned authority, and I didn't say that the fact that Tanny drafted Clemens means nothing. I just don't claim to know exactly how important that is to Mangini, as you claim to know. I disagree with you, obviously, that Clemens showed before Chad pooped the bed too often to leave him in there with another fresh diaper last year that at any point prior to that Clemens in some demonstrable fashion showed the coaching staff he was not Chad's equal. Were that the case they should have drafted a Qb high in the draft this off season, if not last year, whenever it was you think this information became apparent to the CS. Kendall has to do with this because it shows Mangini is perfectly capable of handling a situation on the team in a counter productive way. That about covers it, leaving aside the personal attacks.
Well go back and reread what I've posted because I didn't say any of the things you're talking about. I was pointing out to you that there was no competition last season because you kept pointing out that Clemens still hasn't beat out Pennington. This is going to be his first real chance to do that before the season so your statement really meant nothing at all. I'm done trying to pound this simple point home. God I hate the offseason.
"I know for the twentieth time there was no competition! "But if Clemens were better than Chad, he would have won it anyway!" - Jade proceeds to post three to five variations of the preceding post - The laughable implication here is that he seems to be saying, and this is a good one!, that Mangini would say last January there is no competition, yet he gets to camp and secretly runs one by assessing their relative performance, doing so, mind you, by having Clemens play almost the entire pre-season with the second team. He then sees something that suggests Clemens is better, and announces "Hey, I was just kidding! There really WAS a competition! And Clemens won it!" Or, alternatively "I know I said there was no competition, but I compared the two all through camp and guess what! Chad is the better QB! I was right all along!" Your high comedy is much appreciated, Jade.
My bad, I did not know the only way a CS could change their mind on their starting QB was through a competition. I thought if there were glaring reasons to rethink your starter based on what was shown in camp, they would make a switch. Silly me... I agree the off season sucks. :beer:
No you assumed I meant that about Mangini, a clearly stated I did not agree with him or anybody else 100% on everything. I can only post it I can't make you comprehend it. Mangini is part of "Tanny's" regime if they are not drafting on the same page, that is really scary. I don't buy that for a minute, I believe they want to see Clemens take over. I know this is impossible to conceive but perhaps he was they saw something, perhaps he was not ready or they felt either he or they were not prepared for a change. Either way I do not buy into them overlooking him, or being stuck on Chad who sports "girl" appendages, nor do I believe Coles forced them to do anything. Fort the 19th time I never said Mangini was not capable of mis handling things, don't for get to bring it up again. Again, I do not agree that if they thought Clemens was better and that they would win more with him, they would have started Chad anyway. You do not have to agree with that, but this notion that perhaps Clemens did not show he was Chad's equal and that there is no way in hell you could be wrong is rather humorous.
I don't think I defined a conspiracy. if you have played any team sports you'd realize that there is a certain amount of politicking involved. if you played for three years with the same QB that was in battle with you, gain a new coach and a new shiney QB, who would you side with when the new coach comes in. You root for your guy, and also the new coach doesn't want to lose the teams respect in his first year. You let the old guy play himself out so that it is obvious to the old guys compadres that he doesn't fit. that is what happened to CP. it was obvious to the locker room that he didn't fit.
Not at all, you can clown all you want, but the fact remains if Chad was totally awful in camp and Clemens was such a stud, I believe they would have changed their way of thinking. There does not have to be a competition, to see the obvious, but I guess it was not so easily seen by the CS how Clemens was so much better than a "girl" armed QB.
Oh I get it so, even though they knew the other guy was better, they planed on losing more than they had to, to gain respect from the team. I get it now, and I'm glad the team sports I played resembled nothing like that. We played and were coached to win, we did not care about hurting anybodies feelings. It was all for one and one for all, silly me to think multi million dollar athletes playing in front of the whole world for a shot at being remembered forever should have the same desires.
What other things in life do you love having both ways? On second thought, don't answer that. Thanks for the offer to clown it up, but a serious point is to be made here. That is that CHAD HAS NEVER BEATEN CLEMENS OUT IN ANY REAL COMPETITION.
"Clemens has had three years now to beat Chad out, and he still hasn't done it!" "I know he's only been on the team two years, but this is year three!" "He did not beat Chad out his first year on the team! Tells me plenty!" "Even though Mangini said there was no competition last year, he could have changed his mind! He didn't! He could have had a competition even though he said he wouldn't have one! See? Says it all!" "Despite all these many chances to do so, Clemens has never beaten Chad out! He must really suck!" "Three years! Can you believe it?" Priceless.
The day for wanting to play to be remembered has come and gone. Todays athlete plays for Money. To think anything else would be pretty naive or you must be pretty young.
