That is scary, it means either Clemens hasn't shown the coaching staff very much or the coaching staff is completely gutless. Either way it's not pretty.
So you agree in theory that no one is perfect, but say that we should in effect assume that whatever Mangini does is the right decision? Well if you are not saying that, then please do not make appeals to authority as an answer to my criticisms. As for what you buy, I am not selling anything. I seem to have upset you by noting the obvious about Chad's diminished capacities. And whatever you want to say about what he has or has not done, that does not mean he is above critcism. It comes with the territory. As far as I am concerned, Chad was highly, in fact grossly over, compensated for what he has done here. When his diminished performance required that he redo his contract, he only did so kicking and screaming, and the team is still overpaying him. It is unfortunate he got injured, but he's not the only person to get injured in football. Many get injured before they ever have the chance to start as a Qb on an NFL team. Ftr, I do not feel sorry for Chad Pennington. His experience and presence in NY have divided the fanbase like it has never been divided before. Yet what has he actually accomplished? He is a roughly .500 lifetime starter whose best play is years and two major injuries past. The closest the team has gotten to the SB during his tenure, when the Jets had the league's leading rusher, and an excellent D, he leads the team to 3 points against the Steelers. What do I expect him to do? He might consider coaching for one. He might be good at that. Throwing like a girl won't help him there, either, but it won't hurt me to watch the Jets, either. Sounds good to me.
By accomplished starter, I mean Pennington was the full-time starter for most of 5 seasons and led the Jets to the playoffs three times. Ryan never started a full season, and barely played as a backup because Todd rarely missed a snap from the time Matt Robinson left to the time he himself was traded. The only action Ryan got was 1984 and later in place of O'Brien after O'Brien had won the job. Ironically, the only playoff game the Jets won between Todd and Vinny Testeverde was won with Pat Ryan at QB, not O'Brien.
clemens will be clip boy after the training camp. he has'nt shown he is a full time qb and not even a legitamate threat on our offense. with chad, you have experience, leadership and if he is on top of his game, we can go places and thats a proven fact. no more excuses or conspiracy theories, clemens has his shot this training camp.
Maybe? The one thing I give Mangini is he seems to be a control freek and that makes Chad very attractive. Control freeks don't usually like wild cards and unbridled talent at the QB position is a wild card. I don't like that Mangini doesn't want to give him the full benifit of all the work which Chad doesn't really need but that to me is another bad sign.
By accomplished starter I meant that Chad has not accomplished much as a starter lately. I agree with you that Clemens should be able to win the job, and in that respect, and that respect alone, there is a similarity to O'Brien in his third year. But as has been pointed out here, don't expect to see the Jets play as well as they did in 85 this year, and it is certainly unfair to expect Clemens to bring them up to that team's level of performance. The personnel that year was MUCH better, and I would apply that same consideration to judging Chad should he prove to be the starter this year.
There you go making up stuff again. Where have I said that we should accept what ever Mangin does as right without question? What I said is it makes way more sense that a CS and FO would want to see their guy start than any of your conspiracy theories. Why is it you can criticize and call Chad names and the coach must be wrong, yet it is impossible in your realm that Clemens actually did not earn the starting job and the coaches saw that. You see you do not hurt my feelings, and I do not feel bad for or want you to for Chad, but you who can find fault in the pros, seem to think you are always right, and you post like everybody has made a mistake and was wrong but you. It just makes you look bad, it does not bother me like you think. I tend to believe Chad got the start because Clemens did not beat him out, and the guys getting paid millions to be birds eye and hands on, may have saw something you heinous may have missed, over these lame BS theories. So if Clemens does not beat out "ole girlie arm" this year what is it? Let me guess the coach with the best view of things and the rings on his fingers making millions, who beliscum scorned for coming here is a moron, right? Don't you see how many things you have to miss to believe this crap??? Chad is a "girl" and the coach is too stupid to play Clemens, come on get real. Perhaps Clemens has a little something to do with it no?
No in 1985 they were coming off of two straight years in which an otherwise very talented roster had been dragged down by injuries (McNeil, Klecko, Lyons, Buttle, Walker, etc) and by inconsistent QB play. In 1985 they added Toon to the mix and stayed relatively healthy and played to the record you would expect from the talent on the roster. In 1986 they stayed amazingly healthy for the first half of the season and ran out to that 10-1 record before injuries did them in at the end. The Jet's current roster probably isn't half as good as that 1985 roster. And I think that's being generous given that the 1985 roster was headed on a tear that would win 21 out of it's next 27 regular season games.
Just keep in mind that this is not Clemens' 3rd competition with Pennington. There was a competition in his rookie year which no one in there right mind should have expected him to win. In his second season (last year) Pennington was handed the job before training camp even started. There was no competition - Pennington got all (or the large majority) the snaps with the 1st team throughout TC and the pre-season. This year will be the first competition between Penny and Clemens that he should be expected to win.
Exactly if Kellen is sooooooooooo much better than Chad, and I hope he is, he better win the job, or allot of you will be eating crow.
In fairness we were among the worst teams in football last year and took a giant step backwards. The man with the best view also blew a perfect opportunity to hand Clemens the ball right after Chads early injury but choose to go for wins over getting Clemens more experience. He not only failed to get more wins, he held back Clemens and created a controversy where none would have existed if he used Chad's injury as his out. This isn't a knock on Mangini who I hope turns into a great HC but by any standard the job done last year by our coaching staff was at best highly suspect.
Right and Kellen looked soooooooooo much better than Chad last season, and the "stupid" blind "pressured by Coles" coaching staff just caved in and let Chad start. I know, I believe that like I believe I need a hole in my head.
Depends on what you mean by lately. His last eight games weren't any good, but neither was anyone else's on the team. Right before that he was Comeback Player of the Year and led the Jets to 10 wins and the playoffs, with no real running back and two rookies on the OL. But by "accomplished starter", I was referring to the entire body of work, in comparison to a career backup in Pat Ryan. That's fair. My comparison is only regarding the readiness of a 3rd year in the system QB to be effective. The 11-5 year in 1985 was a team accomplishment, O'Brien didn't do it by himself. If we go 11-5 this year it won't all be the QB either, just as last year's 4-12 wasn't all the fault of the QBs.
I agree, but how do we know the reasoning behind that was not something to do with Clemens, needing more time or work. He eventually got in and I'm sorry but I did not see the second coming of Joe Willie Namath, did you?
Any honest person would say that Chad and Clemens were awful last year. Any honest person would also say that Chad and Clemens were poor decision makers last year. Clemens at least showed an NFL arm and one of the quickest releases in all of football. Chad looked a little prettier and was statistically better but his in game performance was not one lick better. You also can't discount Chad will be paid almost 6 Million more than Clemens just taking up space on the roster. If both of them are going to suck, Clemens at least is affordable.
I'm willing to bet that no team in today's NFL, including the Patriots, is nearly as good as that 1985 Jet team was. There would be no way for anyone to keep all those guys together in today's era of the salary cap and free agency.
I don't know if you saw JWN play, but Clemens when he first fired the ball down field in Baltimore had that quick release and zip that did remind me of JWN. I actually came up out of my chair like a little something in me had just woke up from a long nightmare. I know a few others on this board saw the same thing.
If Clemens can't win the job from Chad we're all going to be eating dirt. If you don't understand how much of the early season problems last year were Chad's very limited contributions to the offense then you won't understand why so many people are praying that Clemens actually has a better camp performance than Chad and beats him out. The problem is that Chad is very good at looking good without actually accomplishing very much. The Jets under his leadership have scored far fewer TD's than you'd expect them too given the other factors in play. In 2004 they had the NFL rushing leader and finished 17th in overall points scored. Does the team with the rushing leader often finish that low? No, in fact the team with the NFL rushing leader has not finished that low in the last decade. The teams that were close were the 2001 Kansas City Chiefs (Trent Green had a 71.1 rating that year) and the 2002 Miami Dolphins (Dave Fiedler, nuff said.) The facts are that Chad has always run a risk-averse offense that underperformed in terms of points produced regardless of what his stats looked like at the end of the season. Effectively his stats mean almost nothing to whether or not the Jets will win a game as his "brilliant" 32 for 39 performance in the loss to Buffalo last year showed. Completing passes is only meaningful if it leads to touchdowns. When it just leads to another long drive followed by a punt or FG attempt the QB has not done his job, regardless of how many 2 to 7 yard dinks he completed in front of a cooperating defense along the way.
