If you want to compare the performance of a 7-year veterant to a 2-year veteran, be my guest. To say that Clemmens is playing at the same level as Pennington did, means that Pennington was playing as well as a guy with zero starts cominging into the season. Expectations are/were higher with Pennington as they should be. His performance should have been much better than if you put a 2nd year guy behind center. It wasn't.
Both WRs played good games this past week vs the worst defense in the NFL and we kicked 4 FGs vs 1 TD. What does that even mean? Who mentions them in the same sentence? WRs get concussions, it goes with the territory. How many have there been on Chad's watch? That might be the only one ever because he's an accurate QB. Al Toon left the game due to concussions and he played with Ken O'Brien who was accurate and had a great arm. Wayne Chrebet got his last one on a pass from Brooks Bollinger, and he played most of his career with QBs other than Chad. Whatever point you're going for there is probably a bad one. Last time I was on this board it was all Chad's fault because the other teams could play "8 in the box". At least according to all you amatuer coaches and GMs on here. What??? We were in every game except New England and Dallas. The offense was barely getting on the field in the second half because we were giving up long drives on defense. Chad is responsible for the defense now? The defense improved after the bye week last year too, was that because of Kellen Clemens? :rofl: Awesome spin, twice as many. At least you know that 1+1=2, so maybe there is hope for you. Come on, man. Both guys beat Miami and we beat Pittsburgh on a punt return, three handoffs and a FG. Like in Dallas? They're more entertaining to you, FOURTHANDLONG and others of your ilk because your personal agenda has been met and the guy you blindly hate is not playing. To anyone objective we look the same with both guys in there. If we're not playing Miami, we're losing close games because we're kicking too many FGs instead of scoring TDs and different guys find ways to fuck up in key moments every week.
If you're starting in the NFL the expectation is to win, I don't care if it's your first game or your 500th. We are not blocking or running well enough to win, regardless of the QB. By your logic Chad should never have been able to come in and win the division in 2002, he should have been learning on the job. He didn't forget how to play the position from last season until now, the offense as a whole isn't playing as well. For this same reason, I'm not ready to throw Clemens under the bus either. If a proven winner couldn't win with this offense this year, I don't expect a new guy to either, but not because he's new.
Clemens has played better than Chad. Period. We have won twice as many games with Kellen than we did with Chad. Chad is a shell of his "three playoff" self. He is clearly not able to get the job done. There is no debate along the lines of Chad or Kellen. That is decided. It is purely now Kellen or someone else. But we cannot make that call yet, next year we will find out. Chad is done and should be. He was a veteran VETERAN QB that clearly has diminished skills, and there is a definite BLUEPRINT to beat Chad. He is a liability. Whatever he did in the PAST is completely irrelevant. You judge NFL players on what they are TODAY. It is something many here with regards to Chad, and Herm Edwards never got. You are what you are today. And in Pennington's case that is washed up.
That is all your opinion. And again with this "twice as many wins", you guys are hysterical. How do you explain us making the playoffs last year then with no running game to speak of and two rookies on the OL? Chad got washed up over the off season? Or was it after he played well in his first couple of games this year? And if Clemens has played so much better beyond the limits of debate, why are we still not scoring TDs vs anyone but Miami? What are you basing this on besides your own personal agenda?
Last year <> this year. What's so hard to understand about that? Vinny in 2002 <> Vinny in 2001. Joe Namath in 1969 <> Joe Namath in 1971. Chad does not have what he had last year any more. You guys who think that the Chad throwing pick-6's this year is the same guy that was leading the Jets offense last year are just wrong. In truth we got to see the pick-6 Chad last season also, it just took a strong opponent to bring him out for display. This season any opponent will do.
I am not sure what your point is related to my original post. I was not suggesting that Chad is solely to blame for the Jets pathetic start, although his play was a major contributor. Furthermore, you cannot completely absolve Pennington of any responsibility for this team's performance. My original point was for the people saying "Clemens is doing no better than Chad, therefore, Chad wasn't the problem. Chad he got shafted." First-time starting QBs could certainly surprise you, but it is not suprising if they struggle. Whereas Chad is/was supposed to be a playoff-caliber QB and he stunk up the joint this year. So, saying that Clemens and Chad performed at the same level is a bit absurd to me. Clemens' play has disappointed me, but I am willing to withold judgement until the middle of next season. And, in case you don't understand, I believe that both QBs would play better behind a better offensive line. Both QBs would play better with a more potent running game. Both QBs would play better with uninjured WRs and if someone gave Brad Smith some stickum. However, at the end of the day if all these things occurred Chad should be playing better than Clemens based on his experience.
<> = does not equal if you took high school math or any kind of logical reasoning class. Based on your posts I think the second is unlikely.
So dump the QB who leads you in almost all playoff stats. The Chad arguments are pointless, we will just have to wait till next year and see how things play out. Just be warned with as much negativity that has gone CP's way, if he is successful someplace else, a lot of you will be feeling quite stupid and the media will be all over the Jets for benching and letting him go.
Chad last year was a better QB than he is this year. It is really that simple. But more importantly if you look at last year, I thought his play steadily declined during the year and that continued this year. I have no agenda. Chad is one of, if not the single most favorite player of mine on the Jets. But I feel he is a liability, and needs to not start for us anymore. I said this last year as well. Clemens has struggled, but he has shown the ability to make throws CHad cannot, and to run the two minute drill mucg better than Chad. I think that it will all come together in one game for Kellen and we will never look back.
Why do all "Chad supporters" think that if someone thinks he belongs on the bench, then they hate him and don't want to see him succeed. I will always remember Chad with fondness for raising the bar for the Jets. However, I don't think past accomplishments are a predictor of future results, nor do I believe in legacy bonus playing time for professional athletes. I am a Jet supporter. I really don't care who is a QB as long as either the team is winning or at least it seems like the QB can take the team to the SB. I do not think that Chad can do that anymore. If the CS thinks he can and puts him back in next year, I'll be cheering for him and the team like hell. If he goes to another team, I hope he is successful as he seems like a good guy. Will I feel "stupid" if he is, absolutely not. Why? Because, regardless of his past success and hopefully future success, I do not think he will ever win a title as a starter. If he does, I don't think it would have happened here and I would rather not spend the next few years proving that point.
We're mostly in agreement then, and I'm not absolving either QB from blame for our record. I'm just trying to be fair to both guys. I left this board out of sheer frustration the week before the Giants game and it seems to me a lot of people here have done a 180 in evaulation of every position on the offense with the QB change, based on their personal agendas. I don't have an agenda, I'm a Jet fan, period. I stick up for Chad here because I just can't believe the ignorance and lack of appreciation most of these posters have. Chad has proven he can win in the NFL, not over a period of weeks but over a period of years. Healthy, injured, whatever. So at the same time I don't believe he's somehow lost his ability to play from January to October, I also don't believe Clemens isn't ready or won't be ready for years to come. I think both notions are absurd. In a team game, bad play in one area is going to lead to bad play in other areas, that's the way it works. But at least evaluate both guys with the same criteria and stop making ridiculous excuses like the schedule, the playbook, etc.
what in the world is wrong with you people? CP has no place on the team next season, unless he wants to stay as backup. His time has come and gone, even if he is currently better than KC. CP is not our future. have you watched the team this year? We stink! Clayton is saying nothing more than CP will want out, and i respect him for that. No one wants to sit behind someone you think you are better than., which i am sure is what CP thinks. So, we need a backup. It makes no sense to bring in another very young player unless you have the opportunity to get a future great (and how would you ever know this?), or you are convinced your QB stinks. A veteran is the choice and i personally don't care who it is. They should not play unless KC gets injured, which then sets the whole program back.
Do not even bother it is not worth your time. My god what is all this manlove for a shot, stick a fork in him done, mediocre QB? Jesus you would think the guy won 3 Super Bows and has this team 13-0 blowing out the rest of the league. CP in the last 3 years has won 1 game against a playoff caliber team. Before all of you strain your brain it as NE last year. Clemens has already done that in his first 5 starts. Oh yeah but a rookie QB playing in front of a shit OL does not get any leeway.....................lmao I am sorry but if you watched the Jets and thought CP should still be the QB of this team I have nothing else to say and please do not bother to reply to my post.
This bit about the "future" is overrated, too. There are very few true franchise QBs who are your future. You go from one year to the next and try to put the best team out there that you can, QB included. Half the time when you do get that franchise guy it's because you lucked out and stepped in shit, like with Brady and Romo. And when that happens it doesn't take four years to figure it out, either. The best season we've had in 35 years was with Vinny, who we signed to be a veteran backup and Foley kept getting hurt, so that time we lucked out. The days of building a team over five years are long over. Who knows what Clemens is? I'm all for giving him a chance and I think it was the right move at the right time. I certainly don't think Chad was shafted, but I'd be careful letting him go if you don't know what you have in Clemens. We could go backwrds for another couple years and have no QB while Chad is successful somewhere else. As I said the other day here, QBs don't grow on trees, Vinny is still starting and you guys declared him done five years ago.
It is amazing how people defend this guy like he is Peyton Manning or Joe Montana? The sad thing is if you go to other places in the country and ask them about Chad they think he s**ks. I have never seen a more overrated player ever. We as jet fans have become so used to losing we immortalize a mediocre Chad.
