Interesting, having the Giants as a partner in the WSS might have been the win/win we have all been looking for.....
I've tried to see positives out of our current situation but i can't find any... I think we have to face the fact that we've been the New Jersey Jets since 84. Oh wait... heres a positive.... they were the New Jersey Giants 9 years prior.
Look, my grandmother would have been a bus if she had four wheels, an engine and a way to carry 54 people. I don't care what your Business Law research project revealed. You want facts? The facts are, the NY politicians killed the WSS. Facts are, Silver and that group from lower Manhatten opposed it with a vengeance and Silver ultimately refused to vote for it. His vote killed it. Woody would not have proposed the idea had he not wanted to put the stadium there. So why do you want to "rip out Woody's throat?" Seriously, your argument is assinine because you assign the majority of blame to Woody. The WSS fell apart not because of Woody, but because NY sh*t on the Jets, once again. Blame the politicians that batted it down. If you live in Manhatten, blame yourself for electing the politicians that batted it down. And if you live in Manhatten and elected the politicians that batted it down, blame yourself for having voted for the stupid, sons of bitches in the first place! You should therefore want to be choking yourself, not Woody!
Without a doubt in my mind... even if we had to ask for Tax funding it would have been pety. No pickiting for "tax for education" blah blah blah. And you know what... I bet no tax dollars would have gone to the stadium but more in improving the transportation in that area. Win/Win? I think so.
But again, the Giants didn't want to partner. But even if they had, Silver would have still knocked it down. So we can woulda, coulda and shoulda the WSS 'till the cows come home. It wasn't gonna happen because the politicians in NY couldn't come together and make it happen (with or without the Giants as partners).
i'm gettin outta work... i will have a response for that when i get home. I will start it off by stating that WOODY wanted too much Tax funding which is WHY the plan shot to shit. So many alternative solutions... and sorry my argument is faaaar from assinine brb
Green Dude, This is like arguing over the price of yesterday's fish. We argued this topic on this board ad nauseum over a year ago. Go ahead and leave work, get yourself in your car and get yourself worked up in a lather on the way home, if that's what turns you on. But it still ain't gonna change nothin'. I guess I just don't understand the mentality of continuing to agonize over an already done deal. And to rage on Woody to the point of wanting to "rip out his throat" because he proposed the WSS and it got knocked down is a bit over the top, no? Seriously. The new stadium is going to be very nice. It'll be a brand new facility and easily accessable to thousands of people, most of all, New Yorkers, because of the excellent rail head they're putting in! There's much more space there and fans still get to tailgate, which was a high priority for many ticketholders. The costs are kept to a minimum because they are cut in half by sharing them with the Giants and the stadium gets used for many other events. There'll be plenty of parking for those who still like to drive to a game. Most of this would not have been possible with the WSS, so in my mind, this was always the best alternative. Your opinion differs, I know. But I wouldn't continue running around publicly announcing that you want to "rip out Woody's throat" if I were you. This doesn't exactly exhibit rational behavior or thought.
Good post. It's true...but go tell a guy that has been loyal to the Nets how nice the arena in Brooklyn is going to be. They don't want to hear it. It hurts, 227, but you have been the one guy that is sympathetic to the plight of the New Yorkers so I give you props.
I was never that sympathetic until I attended TC last year. My mother-in-law lives in Mineola, so I'm no stranger to going across Staten Island and taking the Belt. But when I attended TC last year, I could feel the tradition of the whole Hofstra thing... the college campus... Wayne Chrebet... the way the Long Islanders love the Jets. I even used to go to the games out at Shea. So, for the NY'ers to lose the Jets tothe Meadowlands was a serious blow. Now, with them moving from Hofstra, well... It's like the feeling I had when I was a kid rooting for the Brooklyn Dodgers. And I wasn't even from Brooklyn! But I loved Roy Campanella, Pee Wee Reese.. all those guys. When they moved to Californication I was devastated! And that's the way the Long Islanders are going to feel when the press covers the Jets packing up and moving to NJ less than 24 months from now. I understand all that... believe me. But it's not like it was Woody's fault! Woody tried to get the WSS stadium done... it was NY that f@cked up! I don't blame fans for being pissed, but gt pissed in the right direction... Silver should be tarred and feathered and run out on a rail!
Riight? I was getting out of work and wanted to finish this convo? Where do you come up with some of your analogies? And why are you so stuck on the throat thing? I dislike Woody but the whole throat thing isn't literal so you can stop tryin to make me look like an idiot. Section I love this board for these reasons, people with different points of view, if we didn't have that then what fun is it to have a messageboard. I agree this is like kicking a dead horse and I believe that we both have gotten our points across. I can't stand Woody for many reasons and the WSS added to the fire. But the last thing im going to say is that the deal got denied because we were asking for too much Tax aid, and when you said even with the Gants they would have axed it I think not. We'd be in a similar situation we are in now but in New York. Did we need a roof? no... could we have revised the stadium to meet government tax payer standards? Who knows, but I think it could have been worked out. I don't want to start any hatred so lets just call it quits and make a truce:beer:
I see your point Dude. Don't get in your car and still be pissed. I'm not worth it! Besides, the traffic out there is dangerous enough. Peace, bro. Come to the Meadowlands when the new stadium opens and I'll buy you your first beer!
When the Brooklyn Dodgers moved to Commiefornia I was so pissed I couldn't see straight. I remember going to school... was only maybe 10 or 11... I was so upset I couldn't even eat. I couldn't believe somebody would take this baseball team away. How was I supposed to ever see another game? And you couldn't root for the Yankees then either... no way! Not after rooting for your beloved Bums. The Yankees were our arch enemies! So then, later, people would say, "well why don't you just root for the Mets now?" Root for the Mets? Hell no, it's just not the same! So to this day... and I swear this to you... to this day, it effected me so much, I really don't ever watch MLB or pay that much attention to it.. that's how much it effected me as a kid. Totally lost interest in this sh*t... could care less what the Mets are doing and even less about the Yankees. So yes, I do know how NY kids are going to feel about "losing" their Jets. The only thing you have to do though is, still take them to a game now and then, even though it means beaucoup driving. And at least they're still in the NY area. For us, losing the Brooklyn Bums was really losing them... moving to Californication might as well have been Hong Kong. I didn't even consider them Dodgers after that.
Absolutely. The thing is, his constituents are happy the stadium got killed, or he wouldn't have fought it in the fiirst place. On the one hand, I don't blame them because who wants 80,000 Jets fans, a good portion of them drunken lunatics, pissing in their neighborhood. But big picture, nothing has been done with the rail yards still. Who wants a rail yard in their neighborhood? The stadium connected to an enlarged Javitts would've improved the area, done wonders for the economy, and don't forget that the ground zero memorial is going to be one of the biggest tourist attractions in the world one day and isonly a couple of miles south. They could have filled in the area in between with restaurants, clubs, hotels and created a whole new cool area of Manhattan. If the one negative was the loss of tailgating, that's a silly reason to be against such an ambitious project. Buy a freaken sandwich and eat it at your seat. :lol:.....or tailgate at McSorleys and catch a cab to the game. That doesn't sound too terrible. It would have been really cool for the Jets to play in Manhattan. They would have become a real national team, because of all the out of towners that would want to go to a Jets game in Manhattan. Now they'll remain the Giants dorky little brother for eternity. But everyone's right. What's done is done and no need to whine about it (although I just did). Jersey is fine. I go to Jersey now. Doesn't even take that long if you take 46 off the GW and then 17. If the Jets play on Timbuktu, I'll be there. Drinking and pissing.
God... McSorley's. Last time is was in there was 1965. Men only then... only one bathroom in the back. No need for a "ladies room" because broads weren't allowed! Sawdust on the floor and guys hangin' all over one another getting loaded... St. Patties Day was for real back then... no freakin' gay rights pansy activists f@cking it up... just men drinkin' and carryin' on in a man's world. Girls need not enter. Those were the good old days in Manhatten. Then along came Gloria Steinem and the rest of her bra-burning lesbian friends and they protested the damned place so much they had to open it up to all genders and take away the only real man's bar left in Manhatten! I don't know what's worse! Losing the Brooklyn Dodgers or losing McSorley's! Well... probably the Brooklyn Dodgers.
Dude, I was just there last week. It's not lost. Beer tastes the same. Same cheese plate with the mustard and onions. Ok, so there's chicks in there now. It's an improvement. Other than that, it hasn't changed since 1865. The pictures on the walls tell the story. 1965? You walk in there tonight and you will see it hasn't changed one iota.
I'm going to have to try that, for old times sake. Oldest bar in NY. Still, I don't know if it would be the same. When I was there 40 years ago, it was like I was in the early 1900's... Cats walking around on the sawdust floor, bartenders with the handlebar mustaches and the cumberbuns. Longsleeve white shirts and all. Irishmen trying to outdo one another. You'd have a few drinks and look at the pictures. We were considered young snots. So we'd want to come back to 1965 again. You could go down to the village and see Bob Dylan performing at the Cafe Wha? (ignore the "?" after Wha, the name of the cafe had a question mark after it... Cafe Wha?). Anyway, Dylan would go into the Kettle O' Fish bar across the street from the Cafe Wha? for some drinks before he performed. I'm talking summer of 1963-4. And we'd be coming from McSorley's, all tanked up, and get to the Kettle O' Fish in time to catch Dylan in the back of the bar with Dave Von Ronk, another folk guitarist who never really made it big, but his albums are still available to this day. Look for his work.. it's pretty cool. And he's been on HBO talking about those days too. Anyway, so Dylan would be in the back with Von Ronk and he'd be totally ripped. I'm talking blasted... a combination of LSD, marijuana, pills and alcohol... who TF knows what else. He'd be so wasted at 8PM, you'd never think he could go on, but he did, across the street, at the Cafe Wha?. So we'd all go over there and listen to him singing about the Ballad of Medger Evers and his early version of Blowin' In The Wind. He wrote some stuff for the Byrds about this time too... "Hey Mister Tamborine Man" comes to mind. Oh yeah... the Jets were the Titans back then. I remember the days well.. back before serving in Vietnam and back when the world was innocent... at least for me it was... at the time.
Go during an afternoon when it's empty. It's kind of a young crowd at night and you may feel uncomfortable.
