I believe half the time, when we have trouble scoring in the Red Zone, it's because we have no deep ball and the defense that Chad is up against is virtually stacking the box so close on every play that it's like every down is basically a Red Zone defense for them. Then when we get to the Red Zone, it's basically the same damned thing they've been seeing all drive and been "practicing for" the entire damned game! Maybe this year our running game will help in the Red Zone, but last year it's a miracle (probably the schedule, really) that we even got to the playoffs. On ordinary dirves, how many plays can you design around 5-yard passes? Think about it!
I got your response, but the Jets were a pretty good team last year at 10-6, sure you have had enough of Pennington, but he is the best the Jets have right now I would say.
Who said anything about the Colts? You mentioned the Patriots, Ravens & Chargers.. Two of which we have beaten in big spots with Chad as QB. Yes I am gonna compare them, if anything the Chargers are worse now than they were then, the Patriots are comparable, could go either wa and the Jets are probably better..
aside from the 3 great games he had. most of the work in our offense was done by our WR's fighting for their life after the catch. all I'm saying is it would be nicer to take advantage of recievers so good after the catch by getting them the ball quicker and deeper down the field. how is last year not valid? he just plain didnt look like chad pennington in alot of crucial times during games. anyone who puts up 16 INT's and only 17 TD's theres just no arguing that. how do you just write off a whole year like "well, it never happened lets just pretend he'll always do better." this argument is the oldest and least valid. pointing out that qb's with stronger arms fail just as chad does at times. you know why its not valid? because almost anyone whos ever played has a stronger arm then him. i couldnt make a case for anyone with a weaker arm because to my knowledge, that qb doesnt exist. guess what, thomas jones will look like barlow if our blocking doesnt miraculously change. and thats the thing. it wont. sorry to burst your bubble but the way our team is built it would be much easier to find a better qb than it would to wait till we can replace 3 out of 5 OL, then develop them and wait for some mega run line to solve all our woes. listen, like i said i like penny and think hes a solid player. but solid isnt going to cut it if this team will ever be anything more than a speed bump for playoff teams who didnt earn homefield advantage. the only reason im coming off as such a hard critic is, i find it funny people laugh at the idea of moving on to a new qb. the guys not physically gifted and hes only getting older. meanwhile we could be developing a qb we spent a 2nd rd pick on like i said if penny is playing well i have no problem keeping him in. but if he at least cant have something around a 2 to 1 TD to INT ratio (which is what any qb who gets praise as an accurate cerebral qb should have) then it might be time to move on.
The way I see it, Chad's days as a Jet are rapidly coming to an end. He had his one great season where the stars aligned and people spoke of him being the next Joe Montana. Why was he able to do so well that season? 1) Paul Hackett. Called a conservative offense that fit Chad to a tee. Chad played a smart conservative game letting his receivers and RB's do the work. Chad doesn't like to take chances and isn't comfortable doing so. 2) Defenses didn't have a years worth of films to gameplan against him. A lot of first year QB's have more success because of this. 3) He hadn't had a serious injury yet. Fast forward 5 years and he hasn't had a season anywhere near what he did in 2002. He was plagued by injuries, the offensive coordinator that fit his style is gone, he's had 2 serious injuries to his throwing shoulder, and he's played slightly above average since then doing enough to make a few playoff appearances. Schottenheimer is far from conservative. He wants to open the playbook, be creative and stretch defenses. He asks Chad to take chances that he's not comfortable making. Being a professional above average QB Chad was able to perform slightly above average to average last season while outside of his comfort zone. He threw more picks because he was asked to take more chances. Shotty isn't going to stop being aggressive, and Pennington doesn't have to tools to not be conservative while performing at the level he needs to for the Jets offense to be at the level it needs to be. Unless Clemens is injured I don't believe Penny will be the Jets starting QB by the end of this season, in fact I highly doubt it. Hopefully we can trade him to Tampa Bay at that point with his old pal Hackett for some good value.
If you agree with Mangini that the best player should play, then I don't know why you made this thread. If Clemens would downgrade us to a 6-10 season then right now he obviously isn't the best player. I agree with Mangini that the guy who gives us the best chance to win should start, and that's Chad.
The reason I do not look at his stats as being valid is because we had a marginal running game and teams knew we were going to have to throw to beat them. When your offense is one-dimensional it is always easier to beat a team and to make the QB's numbers suffer. He was also playing in a new system with an OL that brought in two rookies to play. I have never announced Pennington as the Saviour of Western Civilization... he is a QB with some weaknesses - like every other QB out there. He's not going to take a team on his back and pull us out of a hole. But he is the best option at QB today for this team like it or not. And he is going to help us win more than we lose, as he has done in the past. When I see the statistics that point out that WR catching the ball from Pennington have an elevated risk of concussions or injury versus any strong armed QB then I will consider that he may get someone killed. This argument is just silly. He's a smart QB that is not going to force a throw that cannot be made with the occasional exception of a bad decision or defensive read - that every other QB in the league is susceptible to make. Crying Pennington is going to get them killed is akin to crying that the sky is falling. Drama queens... :smile: I am not laughing at the idea of going to a new QB. We may get to that point, but I certainly do not believe the 2nd week of preseason is when it is going to come out. They aren't even playing using their regular offensive schemes at this point. Thinking that you have to switch after one poor preseason game is laughable. What it amounts to is people that hate Pennington and just want to see him on the bench.
So your saying when Coles or Cotchery have to extend themselves to go after one of his fludder balls they are not put into harms way than the avg Qb who can throw a decent pass beyond 10 yards? Your gonna tell me he didn't get our running backs heads taken off last year with his lobs out of the backfield? What NyJ team have you been watching again?
no way are the chargers worse now then they were. they are an elite team loaded with talent, far more than this jet team!! sure the jets beat the pats one meaninless game last season. any game with a division foe is gonna be tough,happens every year. bills ring a bell. were the jets not better than the bills. even dulphins beat a better pats team during the regular season. but when it really counts(playoffs), the jets are not up to the task. and the jets are probably better wins and loses say otherwise. regular season and playoffs!!!!
And Strong Armed Vinny didnt throw High giving Chrebet Concussion after Concussion - Or Kenny O , Boomer etc. Getting a WR block knocked off has a lot less to do with Arm Strength , than it does just making a poor decision or a throw to the spot.
Some hard heads around here. You want to make a point you have to remember to bring a bigger mallet. :grin:
They all made throws that Chrebet and Toon went after that got their bells rung. Even with that said I have never seen one of those other Qb's throw the kind of lobs to Rb's out of the back field that I have seen Chad throw. He is going to get somebody K**ed!
227: I think that the Jets have overall better "skill" players on offense, but the OL as a unit is not nearly as good as the units that the Jets put out 5-7 years ago.
I have to admit that I have some fairly deep concerns now about our O-line's performance, after witnessing some of the 1st team's Chinese Firedrill excersizes Friday night. Brick was manhandled a few times and the line in general didn't do Penny any favors. I'm concerned about pass protection and run-blocking, where before the preseason games, I thought the line looked okay. Of course, I'm no line specialist and this was only deduced from my observations at TC, which is a whole other thing than playing in a game against someone else's 1st team defense. I've always said that probably one of Pennington's most glaring weaknesses as a QB is not his arm-strength, it's his inability to deal with anything short of good protection. Give him a little pressure and he immediately goes into Chinese Firedrill Mode, something Bill Belichick and other good coaches can smell from a mile away and something they will exploit time and again until you get sick and tired of seeing your QB make idiotic, hurried, panicky decisions under fire. He really does not handle any kind of pressure very well at all. This is what scares me the most about Pennington, not his arm-strength. I was sincerely hoping the O-line this year could prevent us from witnessing a recurrance of this, but here it was again, on Friday night, in all it's glory.
