That's an ignorant statement. A very strong argument can be posed for the Nose tackle being the most important position on defense. That being the case, if he is the best player and fits a big position that player justifies a top 5 pick. Unfortunately there are no top 5 or top 10 Nose Tackles to worry about. There are some pretty solid 3-4 Ends if you want to bump Coleman or Ellis. If we have a top pick I think we need a playmaker like McFadden.
If we go 3 - 13, I will go on record saying rihgt now that Mangini and Tannenbaum will not be here next year. There is too much talent on this team to justify 3-13. I am not saying we are playoff worthy, but 3-13 is inexcusable by anyone's standards.
I think the coaching staff should take the same approach as last year. Draft a corner in the 1st and linebacker in the 2nd. Make sure they completely ignore the oline and dlines, the 2 most important things in football. This team again has no holes to fill so we should trade all our picks again to move up to grab 2 players at positions that dont even matter if you dont have a good dline. Brilliant drafting work by getting Revis and Harris.
mr rambo...... there are certain positions on the field that regardless of the potential talent a player has shown in college you do not pay a premium for. CB and NT are examples of this and it is very rare these are top 5 picks. conversely, QB, LT, WR, LB/DE are the sexy highest picks and command a premium in the draft. you are absolutely right about the importance of a stud NT - in any defense - but teams cannot build around a NT or even CB, it is too risky. jil
yes, but while it'd be very tough to pass on him, i think we'd be even more hard pressed justifying taking McFadden. he still wouldn't have an OL to run behind, and the Defense would still get blown off the l.o.s as well as the LB's unable to generate a pass rush. if we - god forbid - are sitting in the top 5, i think we should consider Jake Long as our RT, which would bookend the Tackles for years (gotta have faith in Brick). if Bender is the guy next year, the OL would be pretty much set. if we want to go Defense in the top 5, i don't know who warrants that pick and that money. maybe trade down and grab an extra 2nd and/or 3rd Rounder, and try to land Okam to plug in immediately on the DL. not sure if he'd play NT, but he could take over for Ellis, who could rotate in as he's getting up there in age. with the state of this team we can neither afford to take a skill position guy first, nor do we really need one, especially if Clemens in the answer. he alone will make the Offense better, and with an improved OL, the Offense will become a major strength.
Yeah I would agree if I were to stick my head in the mud and forget about the obvious. You are simply reciting "truths" from NFL past. Saying that these positions are the only positions that justify premium attention and pay is just silly. By that reasoning LT would not be included in that group a mere 10-15 years ago. The game evolves and just as feared pass rushers such as LT and Bruce Smith made it necessary to employ a human shield at Left Tackle, the reversion to more 3-4 schemes is inflating the value of having a legitimate Nose Tackle. Now I agree that CB and NT are rare top 5 picks but besides QB on OL it seems like you could say that about every position. Furthermore, if you agree that Nose Tackle is a key part of our defensive scheme, and I invite anyone to argue that another position is more important, why would it be imprudent for us to use the best of our available resources to find the best available player for the position? Furthermore, why do you say that it is risky to build around a Nose Tackle? Is it because of injury concerns or expectations? Either way, you could make a legitimate case for those concerns for any position on the football field. As far as the "sexy picks" it wasn't too long ago that teams of utilizing the 3-4 relied on later round picks to fill their pass rushing needs. Conversely, I think the NFL has shown a number of cases where picking a QB early is a dangerous strategy, although arguments could be made on either side (Peyton vs. Brady, Leftwich vs. Young). Finally, you cite Wide Receiver as a more important or more deserving position. Surely you meant to include Corner Back as well even though you later stated that it is a dangerous position to fill early. The logic simply being that if a great Wide Receiver is needed, a great corner Back must also be to defend him. To include that position would lead me to believe that the top Wide Receivers in the NFL are not only capable of winning a super bowl but capable of leading a team there. A quick glance shows that a generally accepted list of the top 10 Wide Receivers in the league right now (Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, Marvin Harrison, Chad Johnson, Steve Smith, Torry Holt, Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Hines Ward, and Donald Driver (note that I intentionally tried to avoid including players that would duplicate teams such as Reggie Wayne and Isaac Bruce)) would yield 3 combined Super Bowls (5 if you include Bruce and Wayne). That doesn't seem to be a driving force in the equation especially given the Patriots recent string of 3 Super Bowls with no great receiver. Finally I will entirely agree that Left Tackle is certainly a very important position to fill and this is due to two other NFL adages that you didn't mention. 1. You win in the trenches. 2. Build from the inside out. Nose Tackle is the most important "Trench Position" on defense is is the epicenter of each and every play. A good player's ability to collapse the pocket and occupy space and blockers can negate the interior of the offensive line, the running back and the quarterback. I think you will find that there are not many other positions on the field that can influence so many different aspects of the opposition. If I am wrong, feel free to offer a rebuttal but I think the reasons listed above serve a justifiably sufficient argument on the acceptability of taking a Nose Tackle early assuming said Nose Tackle is both available and reasonably talented enough to justify the position (think Best Available Player).
We need a pass rusher more than anything in my mind. If Long is available when we pick, I would think we can't pass him up, but if there's a bigtime 3-4 OLB pass rusher a la Merriman or Ware, we can't pass him up.
I think you made 3 great points which I want to address. 1 2 3 1. You alluded to it in your post, but you contradicted yourself. I tend to believe, and I could be completely wrong as it is just a theory, that every Offensive Line is capable of blocking on any given play. They didn't accidentally get big and strong and make it to the NFL. Therefore, there must be something else holding them back. Oftentimes it is effort or intelligence but sometimes it strangely seems to be the fault of the players standing behind them or even the coaches on the sidelines. This is what I think you were getting at when you said Clemens would make the offense better. Not always, but sometimes, changing who lines up behind the line changes the effectiveness of the line. I think this can happen for a number of reasons but what comes to mind is the changing focus of both the offense and the defense. For example the offense may be tweaked to take advantage of certain strengths that changed with the new player or to hide weaknesses of the new player and the defense may need to change their focus to account for those same changes. A few examples of this occurring are with the Houston Texans this year and, with a more personal example, the Virginia Tech Hokies. Certain times the new player can better avoid the rush or is athletic enough to make the offensive line look better. In fact the offensive line is not actually getting better, but it seems to have more of an impact than you would think. Certainly the problems need to eventually get addressed but I think if you get someone like McFadden (not necessarily him, just anyone that is a threat to break the game open) or Reggie Bush last year you can change the dynamic of the offense and provide a spark that can offset the deficiencies of the blocking unit. That is just my theory though. 2. I gotta say, the above argument notwithstanding, I see a definitive argument for continuing to strengthen the offensive line by taking a Jake Long early. You are right that you could probably put anyone behind a line like that and they would succeed so it is not a bad strategy. 3. Even I admit that it is early to project who might be a top 5 pick next year, but Okam who may have been top 10 last year is close to suffering an Alan Branch like drop. However, if you want a 3-4 end, and there are no real Nose Tackles of note available, you have to look at Chris Long of Virginia (as much as it would kill me to take two Wahoos early). He is 6'4" 280, plays in a 3-4 Defense under an ex-NFL head coach (who we obviously have ties to) and is arguably the best Defensive End overall in the whole draft (think Adam Carriker). He has pedigree and is tailor made for the 3-4 defense. The only questions that remain are 1. Are Shaun Ellis and Kenyon Coleman the answers on the outside and 2. Are we going to draft high enough to get him if need be. Otherwise, my next best bet would have been Quentin Groves are OLB but an injury may force him to sit out the rest of the season.
Yes, but that's what is great about the NFL. Draft picks when you suck! I honestly don't think it will be that bad. We'll regroup after this loss. Hey maybe the Giants left it all on the field last night, and they'll be looking past us next week.
Actually I think he is the College Scouting director only. Probably what you meant even though Tannenbaum has final say.
I'm glad I scanned down first to see if anyone responded as I would. Trade back to (ideally) an NFC team in the middle to late first looking for a franchise QB. Next year's draft should have a few. Grab at least their 2nd, if not next year's 1st, to fall back and take Frank Okam. Pick up 2 OL and use the rest of the picks on the front 7.
Yes, I am serious when I say Mangini will be coaching to save his job. Someone in this thread seemed to be implying that he would throw in the towel at some point and start "developing" players for next year rather than try to win games, but if the Jets finish 3-13, how could he possibly avoid being fired?
how about Glenn Dorsey from LSU? 6'2 , 303 pound can he be the big NT? he is litsed as the DT for LSU i have seen him play a few times and he great skills and size
