Why should anybody care what the Giants do? They are not in our division, not in our conference, and we only play them once every four years. It would be different if this were the NHL where the Rangers, Devils and that amateur team in Nassau compete head to head against each other in the standings, but what the Giants do should have no bearing on the Jets. Of course, there is the issue of the billionaire owners in the same city wanting to have a pissing contest with each other to contend with.
These two posters have nailed it. What the Giants do shouldn't have any bearing on the Jets, but it likely will have because of the owner and because of sharing the stadium/metro area.
The optimal owner right now is somebody who has had the team for a loooong time, long enough to have had what works and what doesn't work drilled into them over and over again. They have a lot of money and run the team as a competitive outfit and a profitable business, letting neither side of that equation dominate over the other but ensuring that both aspects are in play each year. They let professionals run the show but they have the last word if there is a serious difference of opinion. They see the eras of the team as a progression with high points and low points in each decade and they're not afraid to go into a year with a sub-optimal situation if the long-term plan is stable. In a decade we'll know whether or not Woody Johnson is one of those owners. Right now all we know is that he is a hell of a lot better than most of the owners who have bought teams recently. He's not Dan Snyder with his incessant interference in the operations of the team. He's not Stephen Ross with his "who? what? where?" going on all the time. He's not Randy Lerner who has no clue how to get things done and has presided over a mess almost since the day he bought the team. He's roughly at the same quality level that Arthur Blank is. The odds are pretty good both of them will join the upper echelon of NFL owners as they really get a grip on how things work.
The Jets put together their best season in a decade or more in 2010 and made the playoffs in back to back years in 2009 and 2010 for the first time since 2001 and 2002, which were Parcells legacies to the Jets. He's still taking steps backwards now and then but I see a generally forwards progression with the team. Demoting Terry Bradway was a huge step, although the team would have gone farther by now if the pro personnel department completely turned over when the Herm/Bradway era ended. Woody is still a very inexperienced NFL owner and it will take more seasoning for things to become second nature. The concepts he needs to master can't be learned in a year or two, some of the lessons take many years to play out. An example is the Mark Sanchez situation. Woody still does not know how that one will play out. He's learning on the job. He probably has a clue at this point that going into the season with a big question mark on the offensive line is bad because he has now been bitten badly by this on two occasions in 2007 and 2011 and he watched the 2005 season turn into a rout because of problems in the trenches also. He's also getting an education on how players age out and seriously effect the team. He had this with linebackers in 2003, offensive linemen in 2005 and multiple players this season. That's a learning experience you don't get until it happens to you a few times.
I don't care about taunts from the fans, that goes with the territory. What bothers me is having to see/hear all the crap on TV, radio, advertisements, etc. I am a dedicated listener of sports-talk radio and I can't stand listening to it over and over again for weeks/months at a time.
It remains pure speculation whether Woody in fact will improve from those experiences. In fact you can make the argument regarding the OL that he should have learned from the situation of having Clarke and Bender replace Kendall that letting the OL go into the season like that should have been the learning experience that should have led the Jets to take more concrete measures to replace Turner when he went down with a real replacement at the same time that Hunter was a question mark replacing Woody and Slauson was going into his second year after being the weakest starter on the team last year. In other words Woody did not learn from 2007, and we saw the results.
this franchise has undergone it's best decade and is in better shape than ever before and we our now questioning ownsership? First Rex and now Woody? b/c we went 8-8 and had one bad year? I guess the Giants should have fired Coughlin both before '07 and before this year and they must have needed a new owner missing 2 straight playoffs in '09 & '10 not to mention going 18 seasons w/o a playoff app through the 60s until 1981(only made it b/c the Jets beat GB on the final week). When will it stop?
Woody is not the GM and it's best not to have your owner invovled in personnel decisions(see Dallas and Washington). On paper our OL looked good coming into this season w/ 4 opening day starters back from last year and the 5th a guy who started 2 playoff games. There's was no way to see how bad this OL would be this year, it wasn't just Hunter- Brick had a bad year. That is a guy we count on and expect to be a top LT every season.
Listen, I was excited about the two championship game appearances too, but realistically, only 2010 was a better than average season for this team. The 2009 team took advantage of a couple of huge breaks or they could have been 8-8. 2010 was a nice year, of course, but this year it was back to what they did wrong in 2009 minus the running game and surprisingly good defense. And you see what happened. Yes, being upset about an 8-8 season is nice when we expected more, but the fact of the matter is this team had a creampuff schedule and still only went 8-8. We didn't even play with most of the good teams we faced, and had to struggle against every team except the Chiefs for at least a half and sometimes more. I don't see how you can say we're in great position right now. We have a coach who's a loudmouth and obviously doesn't have control of his team, we've got a bunch of selfish players who want stats but don't respect their teammates, we've got age in some important positions, and we already have holes we have to fix. Not to mention a huge question mark under center. I'm sorry but I don't share your optimism and I am not allowing myself to be fooled by the two nice playoff runs that, in retrospect, were overachievements.
they dont need more attention on themselves, so they dont need to do crap...we did all our trash talking prior to xmas eve but then laid an egg...its time for us to shut up and have some sort of humility
we could have been 8-8 or we could have been 11-5, most teams in the league are a couple of breaks away from doing something. The Giants got a game in AZ due to a bad call- if they don't win that one they may not make the playoffs. We can play that game w/ most teams. The bottom line is we made it and won 2 road playoff games to reach the title game. I'm pissed about this season too, everyone should be but it doesn't mean we make changes everywhere. We have talent, we have coaching but we need to tweak some things. This franchise is in the best shape it has ever been in for sustained success. The loudmouth coach has the most postseason wins of any coach in jets history. We had problems in the LR, that happens in most LRs and comes to the surface when you lose. We had many problems this year, many correctable problems. fooled by 2 nice playoff runs? I could see if we made one run then didn't win a playoff game for years but back to back title games? that shows it wasn't a fluke, I'd be willing to bet 2011 was more a fluke than '09 or '10. This is just so silly, the giants would be playing right now if they got rid of Coughlin or Eli like many fans wanted even after their SB win. Rodgers led GB to a losing season in '08(after a title game app the year before w/ Favre) and no playoff wins in '10- should they have gotten rid of him or McCarthy? McCarthy now has TWO home playoff losses- get rid of him! Peyton took 6 years to win a playoff game and had better teams around him than the '09 or '10 Jets did around Sanchez- should Indy have gotten rid of him?
The Jets will undoubtedly go out and make some sort of foolish personnel decision in a vain attempt to steal the back pages from the Giants for a few days. But, luckily for us fans, it will be no more foolish than the stuff they do every off season.
To me this isn't about Sanchez. It's about just about everything else - they have major holes that have been created by their insistence on going after big names instead of filling the important spots on the team. Although LT was a nice addition, they gave up on Thomas Jones to get him for the same money - and JOnes was more of a leader. They went after Favre a few years ago, they killed any chance of putting a solid product on the field this year by going after Aso for as long and as hard as they did while guys like Brad Smith went elsewhere. THey then priced themselves out of taking Edwards back at the expense of Burress and STILL left money on the table. I don't have confidence that this front office will be able to make the right moves. THey are starstruck rather than football smart.
Was more productive than Jones the last 2 years? did the Jets not have a better year in 2010 than they had in 2007, 2008 or 2009 w/ Jones? I loved Thomas Jones and preferred to keep him but looking back they made the right move. Brad Smith did nothing for Buffalo. We had plenty of cap room for Braylon, we didn't want him back for some reason. I disagree w/ it but I wasn't in the building w/ him so they had their reasons to let him go. I have an incredible of amount of confidence in the HC and FO to get us back to being a top AFC team next year.
Well, I do think this is partly about Sanchez, very much so, and as much as I get your point about Jones, LT is a leader as well. But for the most part, I agree with your assessment. This "one bad year" is nonsense and factually incorrect. 2005 and 2007 also count as bad years. This past season at 8-8 based on the record alone is also the very definition of an average, and not bad, year, but it is the direction of the team that is cause for worry at this point. I still count myself a Ryan fan. But my confidence in him is much diminished. By his own words he was not aware of what his players were thinking. Many of his press conferences have become almost insulting for their vapid generalizations and lack of cred. The "I am me and am not going to change!" is more a cause for concern than admiration if one thinks, as I do, that Ryan could learn how to be a better HC, and should. The past season focus on Schotty ignored that other coaches, such as Callahan, Ellard and Pettine, were also having terrible seasons, and I would add Cavanaugh to that group. All these people reported to Ryan. Sanchez remains a major question mark at the heart of this team as it is presently constituted. The emphasis going forward on ground and pound may well be the right approach to take in terms of coaching philosophy, but the not so subtle inference is that Ryan is not going back to the approach earlier this season of opening up the vertical passing game, since he's lost confidence in Sanchez's role in that regard. Sanchez may well have a season next year less prone to mistakes. But those here expecting him to become a top passer in this league should not hold their breath. The running backs are also a big question mark when one considers the intent to run it. LT is old, and imo less than likely to come back. Greene is quite simply not an every down back. McKnight and Powell are unproven and big question marks. In Keller the Jets do not have the kind of big TE that is more and more part of the effective NFL offense right now. The Jets will almost certainly be looking to replace Burress. The OL is in need of a significant talent infusion,with Moore aging, Ferguson coming off an off year, Slauson still mediocre and VD a sucking black hole on one critical roster spot. And we all know about Hunter. The DL I think is in good shape relatively, but the linebackers as a group are slow. Fixing this group going forward is perhaps the most challenging area of the team in terms of making roster moves. Wilson tailed off at the end of this past season, meaning Cro remains a critical part of the team despite the perception of inconsistent play on his part. (I am more of a Cro fan than most here, I take it.) Safety will require AT LEAST one big addition, and arguably two. My personal indicator on how well the FO will deal with there being too many mediocre players on this roster will be whether Pool comes back. Meaning not good if he does. Strickland is also likely to go. Conley sucks as a punter, and I am always surprised to see Folk has his fans. I am not one of them. In short, there seems to be a couple of off season's worth of roster upgrades necessary on this team to make it clearly competitive, and Tanny's track record in that regard is not promising. It's as likely right now that the Jets' record next year worsens as that they will again be a force in the playoffs. "one bad year". I wish.
Longevity doesn't guarantee that an owner will "learn" anything from past failures -- or even that he's interested in learning. It all depends upon his priorities. Ralph Wilson has owned the Bills for 52 years. He hasn't improved a lick. Still the same old Ralphie using the team as a profit center and job bank for his relatives. RW lives by the motto that winning is nice but making money is better. :sad:
And this is pretty much the issue, Big Blocker. Everyone here points to Sanchez and says "Well if he's a Game-Manager, then what the hell were Tanny, Woody, and Rex doing in drafting him so high?" We may never know the reason aside from MAYBE thinking they could mold him into a very good QB....or maybe Rex did want a Game-Manager and Mark fit the bill? But anyway, it's apparent that Mark has this year to show that he can STILL function in a GnP offense like he did last year(Please get Braylon back, Tanny!) or it's curtains for his Jets career.
Its not like we were the only team interested in Sanchez - every draftnik pretty much had him going in the top 10 - we saw the same things in him that everyone else saw in him - a ton of potential that sadly has yet to really manifest itself. I googled mock drafts from 2009 and checked the first 4 I could get to work and of those 3 of them had him being drafted at #4 overall and 1 had him lasting until #10 (though it says "It is almost certain that someone, maybe even the 49ers themselves, will trade up to take Sanchez before he fell this far. If not, San Francisco would be delighted to have a player who many scouts believe could have gone No1 overall in 2010 had he returned to college for his senior year"). One of the mocks also amusingly referred to him as being "the most accurate QB in this draft" - look how that turned out. So there was nothing shocking or suprising we traded up to get him when every "expert" had him down as a top 5 pick and a potential franchise QB - we rolled the dice and thus far it looks like we've crapped out - but you cannot knock them for trying - and we can still have some hope for this season that the lights will go on
I for one certainly do not rule out that Sanchez will improve going forward. He may even end up being very good. But I think it should be clear that those expecting him to become a top tier NFL Qb are just short of certain to be disappointed. Even Mark's supporter in Ryan is, even more so than in the past, taking steps to go in the G'nP direction, which is not the kind of offense you have if your Qb can carry the team on his back and score lots of points. In other words the parameters going forward do not include the kind of high flying passing attack you see in some of the more successful teams. I have to wonder if it will include even the kind of limited vertical attack the Ravens use. I am doubtful but not certain about that part of it. But it is clear that the next couple of years have virtually no prospect of Sanchez developing into what passes in the NFL these days for a franchise type Qb.
