It's because of the different nature of the practices. Think of it this way. When do linemen actually practice and work on technique ? During TC and Preseason. It's the only time they can really do it. Same with defense and tackling. Teams break up into position groups and they work on fundamentals. Oline guys would work on different blocking techniques, hand fighting, footwork, etc. Dline and LBs would work on the defensive version of the same things. LBs, Safeties and DBs would work on tackling and also coverage techniques. Then, during mid season practices, it's less about technique and more about scheme and tactics. Who's going to drop into coverage ? How are you going to change up the blitz packages ? How are you going to disguise those blitzes ? Who is going to stay home and "spy" the mobile QB. When the team is out there doing walk throughs of the game plan, the QB isn't going to be out there practicing the fundamentals of his throwing motion. He isn't going to be working as much on learning to read defenses. Everything that will be worked on that week is much more game specific, on not about "fundamentals" that Tebow still needs to work on. Bottom line is that he had 4 months to work with those starters, in MID SEASON PRACTICES, which again, is where you work on things that are much different than what you work on in TC and Preseason. Again we are faced with the problem of your ignorance about how football actually works.
There are different schools of thought on this one Br4dw4y5ux. Take basketball of example. Most NBA players have probably shot 50,000 free throws throughout their lives in practice. Yet, even when they reach the NBA, the still practice them every day. Some, to try and improve their percentage; others, to maintain the ability that they have attained. I.e. to keep sharp or what have you. Or look at baseball. Most players have hit the ball tens of thousands of times by the time they reach the Majors, yet they continue to take batting practice almost daily. It's not like riding a bike, where once you have learned how, you'll always be ok at it.
Yeah but free throws and batting practice don't accidentally retire the people who have to practice opposite you. They don't lead to greater concussion chances and other chronic conditions in the future. This is professional football and people who want to play it should be capable of giving a professional effort without requiring live tackling dummies on a regular basis.
So during these mid-season practices the wr / te and rb dont run routes? and during these practices the QB doesnt throw the football? When their putting in a game plan they just stand around? Interesting. I assumed they actually practiced the offense they were going to run. My bad. I guess youre right Tebow shouldnt have gotten any better after he became a starter because he never practiced throwing to another player for 4 months. Jeez. No wonder he just cant get any better! he never gets to throw the football. I wonder how they keep him from doing it on his own in the off season?
Actually, in the mid season, the WR/TEs would walk through routes first, then go at half speed and they might eventually run it through at full speed. You can see this when you see some of the vid reports from practices. Look at QBs taking the snap, drifting back at half speed, then they pull back like they are going to throw the ball but they don't. Or, they just lob it. Basically, just going through the motions. That's a lot different than in preseason and TC when plays are being run at full speed. It isn't like it used to be where practice was full contact and full speed in TC, preseason and throughout the year.
True, batting practice and free throws don't run that risk, but that's a different point. You were taking about how guys who made it to the NFL should already know how to tackle and that it was basically pointless to practice it. The actual matter is that it's a trade off. Blocking and tackling IS something that needs to be practiced during the season, and yes, there is a risk that injuries could occur. Players Union won out, safety reigns supreme, blocking and tackling will suffer because of it.
That's not really true... before Kim K it was Paris, before her it was Tara Reid, the media gets tired of useless skanks and after Kim K they'll find another useless skank to parade all over the Enquirer about who is nailing her and who she was drinking with. I don't know if the media will get tired of Tebow but when they do they'll find somebody else to go after.
Um, in his first 2 seasons he threw a total of 31 passes spread out in spot appearances over 5 different games. No chance to get into a rhythm or do much of anything. I wouldn't expect him to look like much of anything. I'd imagine that the coaches were putting him in different situations during garbage time to learn things. Not quite. Nearly everyone else thought Tebow was a long-term project except for Josh McDaniels. He gave up draft picks to get back into the first round and grab Tebow. No one trades away multiple draft picks (especially on a team that had as many holes as Denver did) for a "project." No one drafts a "project" in the first round. McD clearly wanted to start Tebow as a rookie. It was widely circulated that Josh wanted to trade Orton before the start of the 2010 season to clear the way for Tebow. But when McDaniels got his QBs into OTAs, Tebow was so clearly un-ready and Orton was so prepared that Josh (who had the world's biggest man-crush on Timmy) had no choice but to start Orton. And a huge chunk of that was under Josh McDaniels - a very young rookie HC who was in over his head and had been busy dismantling the team which Shanahan had left him. BTW, Tebow contributed 1-2 to that record at the end of the 2010 season when - after McD was fired for incompetence and the RB coach (Studeville) was jammed in there. I'm not championing Quinn starting anywhere. But disparaging the importance of basic quarterbacking skills does nothing for your argument. As a rookie, Kyle Orton had a 10-5 record as a starter for the Bears. The Ravens won the Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer. Just because Tebow was under center doesn't make him responsible for the wins... It was THE BRONCOS who "managed to win." Their Defense kept the game in reach while Tebow led the league in 3 & outs. Opponents went into prevents at the end and Tebow would manage one good play after 55 minutes of unadulterated crap. The difference is that Ponder made clear and discernible progress as a QB. Tebow has made none. Some even feel that he's regressed. Tebow wasn't going thru progressions. He was looking around confused because the game moves too fast for him to process. John Elway - whom the Broncos brought in to put them back on the winning track - was NEVER impressed by Tebow. He even spoke bluntly about how Tebow was NOT a good QB. Tebow was traded away because they didn't want Tebow. They chased Manning so diligently because they didn't want Tebow and even the most ardent Tebow fan couldn't argue that Timmy should be given the nod over Peyton freakin' Manning. There wasn't any outcry from the fanbase when Denver traded away Tebow because they had Peyton Manning... QBR? Now you're going to argue for Tebow using ESPN's phony, make-believe stat? Maybe because the shotgun can be limiting. It's generally a harder formation to run out of, so you're committing to more of a passing game with a QB who has accuracy problems. And there's greater chance of a botched ball exchange. Some coaches simply don't believe in a lot of shotgun. Wow. After 4 straight 3 & outs Tebow managed a decent drive. The run option was an oddball Offense that NFL Defenses weren't set up to face. So it enjoyed a brief success like Miami's wildcat did. Then opponents got the adjustments down and Denver went 1-4. Tebow won't be able to repeat that success any more than Miami will repeat their previous success with the wildcat. He's had those in Denver. Two years worth. He couldn't show enough to convince his coaches (including the one who drafted him) that he was worth trying to develop over starting Kyle Orton. He's been given his shot. He impressed absolutely no one. That's why he isn't still being given another shot...
Will break this up as it's getting long, and I really want to address the first couple of points first. It really wasn't about the lack of rhythm. Believe it or not, it's not a knock on Rodgers. It just demonstrates that not every QB comes into the league ready to play like some QBs have done (such as Dalton, Cam, Russell, etc). Some guys just take a couple of years. It depends on the player and the situation. Have to ask, but did you read the article that I linked to about Rodgers ?? Wrong. Even McDaniels saw Tebow as a project. The Broncos were loaded with draft picks that year and McDaniels thought that someone else would take Tebow before Denver could in the 2nd, so he traded back up to grab him. If he really wanted Tebow as the starter, he wouldn't have drafted Demaryius Thomas ahead of him.
I can accept that. However, some guys just never get it. While Tebow is a great athletic talent and was one of the best college QBs of his generation, he's not cutting it on the NFL level. To me it seems plain that there's just too much going on for him to be able to process it properly in the small amount of time NFL QBs are given to take in what's happening around them, make a decision and throw the football. I missed it before because it was in your response to Concerned Citizen. But I went back and found the link. However, when I clicked on it, I received a warning that it was an attack page containing malware. Google Safe Browsing Diagnostic Page So, sorry - I didn't want to risk infecting my computer just to read an article about Aaron Rodgers... Tebow was projected as a 2nd to 4th rounder by most simply because he was so widely seem as a "project." If Josh McDaniels had also seen Tebow as a project, then he really would not have given up a fistful of draft picks for him. He wouldn't have burned a 1st round draft pick on him. A first round QB is expected to start almost immediately these days. They are never "projects." The fact that McD did what he did plainly shows that he valued Tebow highly. And a highly valued QB almost invariably storage cxsquickly. Yet even when McDaniels job was threatened over a "Patriot-esque" cheating scandal and he could have largely smoothed it over by starting Tebow, he didn't.
Brady Quinn has been, and probably always will be a poster practice player. He looks great in the uniform. He throws pretty spirals. And he absolutely sucks when it comes to actually winning football games. But hey, he has the "QB skill set" because he can throw a pretty spiral in practice, and that apparently is all that counts. No, what makes Tebow responsible for the wins is that he drove Denver down the field on those come back, game winning drives. On most of those drives, he was responsible for most of the yardage. Kyle Orton is a bit of a mystery to me. BTW, his rookie season in Chicago, it certainly didn't hurt that the Bears defense was ranked #1 and their running game was 8th. Anyways, Orton is one of those guys who can light the field up throwing the ball, but somehow, for whatever reason, he manages to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. I really don't know what it is. My guess is that he just isn't that much of a people person. His teammates don't seem to respond to him. It's not that they don't like him personally, but he just doesn't seem like the type of guy that anyone would lay it all on the line for. By all means, the defense came up huge and were a large part of the victories. BUT, it still comes down to the fact that Denver often found themselves behind, Tebow came in and led the game winning, come from behind drive. And no, as has been demonstrated repeatedly, it wasn't against "prevent" defenses. Cover2, inverted Cover2 and Tampa2 ARE NOT prevent defenses. Ponder didn't make much progress in his first year. His last game he had a QB Rating that was single digits before he got knocked out of it. Ummm, nope. Tebow does actually go through progressions when he has time. Not the greatest at it, to be sure, but he's not the "First read covered, then run" QB than some of you all are claiming. What Elway wanted is the conventional wisdom of the NFL, that being, a "stand in the pocket and throw the ball" QB. He didn't want a dual threat QB. He didn't want a running QB. He didn't want a scrambling QB. Hey, people use it to disparage Tebow, so why not use it to defend him ? Actually, if you are running Read Option, it's just as easy to do it out of the shotgun as it is to do it from under center. Actually, it's even easier and more effective. If you were familiar with Urban Meyer's Spread Option, you'd readily know this. The question is, WHY and HOW did he manage a decent drive at that point ? It's because they went into the shotgun, they spread the field with WRs and they forced the Jets to make a decision as to whether to defend against the run with a "heavy" LB package, or, to defend the pass with a smaller, faster nickel/dime package. They pulled the LBs and went with DBs to cover the receivers. Oh, right. All teams need is some game tape to stop the option. Guess that's why Washington, San Fran and Seattle were so helpless running it this year ? One of the things that Mike McCoy didn't figure out is that even with the Option, you still have to change things up and show a variety. You can't just line Willis McGahee up to the right of Tebow in the shotgun and run the same play every single down. Doesn't even help to change it up by putting McGahee on Tebow's left every now and then. What teams caught up to was Mike McCoy's inexperience and lack of knowledge with running the Option. Not even close to being the truth. Guess what ?> In 2011, Tebow took the majority of his snaps from under center, NOT in the shotgun. They didn't even run the read/option most of the time. No, he hasn't had his "shot" in my opinion. He did just fine for a kid working through his first 16 starts in the NFL, managing to put together a 9-7 record with a playoff victory.
Oh, I agree with you completely. I just think that it's too early to tell with Tebow, given that he's only had 16 starts I can understand and appreciate your view on this one. Thing is though, given some of his abilities, he wouldn't be facing the same kind of defenses that "pocket passers" face. Think it was on Mike and Mike that they talked about this with Kurt Warner. How running/option QBs make it 11 on 11 football, and they asked Kurt how much easier it would have been to throw the ball against such defenses. He said that he wished the Read Option was in use back when he was QB. We saw this very thing this year with Kaep, RG3 and Russell. Not taking away from the fact that all three are more accurate and consistent than Tebow, BUT, they didn't face the same kind of passing windows that Brady, the Mannings, or other "pocket passers" faced. Completely understandable. Sorry about that. I'm getting the same message now, but the link was fine earlier (?) Anyways, I'll go ahead and post the article in it's entirety in another reply. Scouts/pundits/analysts had him listed as going anywhere from 1st to 4th. That's not where they thought he should be necessarily, but more of a prediction on what they thought teams might do. McDaniels saw Tebow as a football player that he wanted on his team and that is why he moved back up to draft him. It shows that he valued Tebow highly, but it doesn't show that he expected Tebow to step in and start his first year. That's you opinion, and frankly, it's simply wrong. Top 5 picks are generally expected to step right up in today's NFL. Guys that are drafted later, even in the first round, are a different story. Some might get the nod the first year, depending on whom else is on the roster. Others might sit for a year. Others might step in during their first year. Ponder, for instance, took over after McNabb started off the year at 1-5. Then you have Jake Locker who was taken with the 10th pick. He sat for a year behind Matt Hasselback. Aaron Rodgers was also a 1st round pick at #24, but Green Bay had no plans for him to start his first year. Don't think Favre had started doing his yearly retirements yet. In short, there's any number of situations that come into play. If you have a good QB who is aging, you go ahead and spend a late 1st round pick to grab a good QB who can sit on the bench and learn for a couple of years. If you have a crappy QB, you try to trade up and get an top 5-10 pick and grab a QB who will start immediately, kind of like the Jets did. If you aren't willing to trade up, and you have a mediocre QB, you grab a late first rounder or 2nd rounder and have a QB competition. And ? Tebow was a known project from the start, as I have said. McDaniels didn't think he was ready.
Continuing..... Like I said, it took Rodgers 3 years on the bench to develop into being a good NFL QB. He has since gone on to become a great one. It helps to have worked with coaches who know how to develop QBs and will even have a 6 hour a day QB school for them.
No, Mcdaniels drafted Tebow early because he believed he found his man. Nobody trades 3 picks to move up and get someone they believe is a project, nobody. and if anyone did, they wouldn't last long in the league. No, he was wowed by Tebow at the workout. Loved his work ethic, loved his game, etc. He WANTED Tebow to be the guy. It would have made his career being right about a guy many were saying wasn't going to cut it in the NFL. The other reason McDaniels wanted him was that he was expected to be good at the wildcat. He was even promoted to second string at the time to get around that stupid rule about playing emergency 3rd string quarterbacks. apparently if you used them AT ALL, you couldn't bring back the starter. There's no question in my mind that McDaniels wanted Tebow to beat out Orton. It was clear however once he got on the team just how far he had to go.
Apparently playing games, and doing walk through routes with the starters isn't really helpful... ...but a couple of weeks of TC is enough to take a guy that finished dead last in almost every major passing category into a top 10 QB. Tebow's problems go WELL beyond what can be corrected in a couple short weeks. But I don;t understand why it is a must that he be awarded the job with the starters if there is another guy on the roster that just about the entire coaching staff believes is better. Sounds like a lot of risk and work to make Tebow a success story when most front office guys and coaching staffs couldn't possibly care less about the tim tebow human interrest story. They're gonna do what they think will help them win, and probably 100 out of 100 will not pick the guy shot putting the ball into the next zip code over the guy who seems to understand the playbook, makes the reads, and can actually hit receivers in stride. The other guy is the one that gives the best chance to win? Maybe in tebow fanatic land, which is probably why none of them have a job in the NFL. Dennis had it right. If Dilfer and Brad Johnson can get a Superbowl ring.... If Kyle Orton can go 10-5 in his rookie year, and go 23-2 when a defense gives up 15 or less... and Mark Sanchez can win 4 playoff games in his 4 year career... Then simply being under center at the time of the win doesn't neccessarily mean they were the ones responsible for the win, or that they are somehow better than the QB who didn't win. By that logic, I'd have to say Orton is better than Tebow because Orton won the head to head game. Not one Tebowner on this website would go along with that logic even though that is pretty much in line with what they have been doing.
You are right there on the verge of it. Sure, McDaniels wanted Tebow to be "his guy". That doesn't mean that McDaniels expected Tebow to come in and start as a rookie or even in his second year. Like I said, Tebow was project from the start. Obviously, McDaniels had faith that Tebow would become a good/great NFL QB. The question is, how long would it take. Evidence backs me up on this. IF he expected Tebow to be the starter immediately, he would have had Tebow taking the first string snaps in the QB mini camp. He didn't. Tebow, as the rookie, was 4th in line and often didn't get any snaps. This was right from the very beginning, not some time down the road after assessments might have been made. Additionally, people get hung up on the draft picks McDaniels used to trade up. Those were basically "bonus" picks to him, i.e. free money. Denver had traded down twice in the first round and got extra picks in doing so. Even with that, they still got the guy they wanted in the first round, Demaryius Thomas. Think about that for a minute. If McDaniels was so sure that Tebow was ready, wouldn't he have used their original first round pick on him instead of trading it ? Or, the next first round pick instead of trading again ? Or their actual first round pick that they used for DT ? The kid was a project from the start, even to McDaniels.
