Dude, there's no way you can call Vinnie a "Franchise QB." That's just wishful thinking on your part. Call him a "good quarterback." Call him "a very good quarterback." But please do not call him a "franchise quarterback." That is just plain overrating the guy. He got the Jets to a championship game, just like Ken O'Brien did. Does that make O'Brien a "franchise QB?" Was Trent Dilfer a "franchise QB" because he led the Ravens to a Super Bowl? Yes, Vinnie played great for the Jets: For one year. But he was considered a journeyman QB before that, and after that. One year does not a career make. Also, as you admit--he got injured before herm took over the team! So why would you expect the same level of success from Herm Edwards as you enjoyed from Parcells? Why blame Herm Edwards for Vinnie's injuries? That was an achiiles tendon injury, very few QBs come back from that. Yes, it's too bad Vinnie got injured. Hey, I loved it when the Jets got into the playoffs with Vinnie and Keyshawn and the rest of the crew! But we never found out if Vinnie could be the player you hope he could be. But even you would admit that Vinnie Testaverde was never in the same class as true "Franchise QBs": Tom Brady, Steve Young, Peyton Manning, Johnny Unitas, Joe Montana, etc. Joe Namath (in his prime) or Bret Favre as "francise quarterbacks." Otherwise, Vinnie would have a better career resume, which would include playoff appearances with more teams. Heck, he went to the Cowboys after he played with the Jets... How did that work out? Tony Romo took over and looked better than Vinnie. How did he do in Cleveland under Belichek, who is supposed to be like, some kind of coaching genius? (Not that I think so, ut this is the perception in the NFL.) Same with Chad. The day he takes another team to the playoffs, maybe I'll agree with you and call him a "franchise QB." But he's just not in that class yet. Calling Chad Pennington a "franchise QB" based on his body of work is a bad joke. Again: "Good QB?" I agree. "Very good QB?" Yes. BTW, the book is not closed on that Patriots QB, that guy who has Moss to throw to. We just don't know yet. WTF... You can't judge a QB on TWO F'N NFL GAMES! But you are doing just that.. AND calling ME "stupid" on top of it! Anyhow, I am just glad that you aren't piling on with that "Herm Edwards was a lousy coach" stuff. Thanks for that. The main point of my post was to say that, if you--as a Jet fan--want to dump on Herm Edwards... The same Herm Edwards who put together the best winning streak the Jets ever had, getting the team into the palyoffs and winning a division title and all... Then you are also dumping on our beloved Jets. Give the man some credit for his accomplishments, and OUR TEAM, The New York Jets, some credit, for what we accomplished when Herm Edwards was the coach. And if I sound stupid? I am sorry that I openly root for whatever Jets victories the Jets have had in the last few decades. Maybe you're smarter than me, but I still love this team, as flawed as they have been.
All due respect dude (and I do respect your opinions posted on this board), as I just said: THose were NOT two "Franchise QBs" that Edwards inherited. One thing I would bring up re: Pennington... Paul Hackett was the offensive coordinator when Chad had his best years. Everyone criticized his game plans, but on the other hand, they emphasized Chad's strengths and managed to omit his weaknesses and the team won enough games to get into the playoffs. Jets fans seemed to blame Hackett for everything but always let Chad off the hook. I would suggest that maybe it should be the oher way around. The Jets had good receivers and a good team behind Pennington for those years. NOW we are seeing what happens when Cotchery and Coles can do with a REAL franchise QB. And as for those four 1st round picks that Herm inherited? One was a defensive end (John Abraham) who was always injured. Just ask the Falcons. Shaun Ellis was the next. A decent player, but he's hardly another Warren Sapp or even another Mo Lewis. Another (Anthony Becht) was a tight end who, sadly (like so many Jets' tight ends before him) never lived up to his potential. Another was Chad Pennington. To me, the book is still open on this guy, but anyone who saw last Sunday's game has to think we now have a better QB. Another thing: Al Groh was one of the worst coaches in Jets history. If he didn't leave to take that job in Virginia, that Jets team probably would have mutinied. Thanks for reminding me how Edwards didn't exactly inherit a championship team from Bill Parcells... He brought together a fractured team that was missing Bill's leadership and managed to get them into the playoffs for a few years. Finally: Look, I don't think Herm Edwards was Vince Lombardi or anything. But he was a good coach for the Jets and I am forever getting tired of seeing him get dissed on this board as if he was Rich Kotite. Herm did a decent job with this team, better than Pete Carroll... Wait... Isn't he a guy everyone seems to want to hire for their NFL team now? Well, that's sort of my point.
I problem with Herm for most seems to be after his departure, at least to me thats how my distain for him came to be. I believed in the inspired speeches and the motivation he seemed to put in players. I liked how good he was with the media as well. Once he left, I saw the truth - it was all style and no substance, and the man couldn't draft that well either. It was all a big lie, with a couple of playoff appearances. His jumping ship does not help his credentials either.... but he isn't the first coach to jump ship, that scares me with how the organization is run. Pete Carroll was not ready for the NFL when he was hired for the Jets or the Pats, and he is never leaving USC. If he came back to the NFL, I still don't think he'd do that well - he is a pure college coach. His animated self on the sideline, and I don't think he be great with dealing with the millionaires he has for ball players... Plus once you become an NFL coach, you become less of a teacher and more of a manager... Carroll wants to teach.
Okay, here I go again with more of my "stupid comments..." I am picking up this thread again, against all advice from my close friends, my girlfriend (who I love), and my doctors (who are recommending permanent rest and recuperation!)... 1. Vinnie Testaverde was NEVER a "Franchise QB" for the Jets, or anyone else. Do not get me wrong. He was a very good quarterback for the New York Jets, much like Ken O'Brien or Richard Todd. But if you insist on calling him a "Franchise QB," then you have to tell me what he accomplished that other Jets quarterbacks (like Todd or O'Brien, who got the Jets far into the playoffs, like Vinnie did) did not... 2. If you wanna call those two guys (O'Brien and Todd) "Franchise Quarterbacks" for the Jets? Well... okay.. I'll go along with it... But that opens the door for an awful lot of players to be "Franchise This" or Franchise Thats." 3. The fact that Chad Pennington is not in the same class as Jets QBs such as Todd and O'Brien, who gotthe Jets to an NFL Championship game, should hopefully force a few of you to get off this whole debate. Pennington NEVER got the Jets to the NFL Championship, did he? 4. Pennington was never, ever "great" with the Jets. Chad compiled great statistics, throwing the ball within a system, but he rarely won any big games for us. And this is what the NFL is about: Winning Big Games! 5. I doubt that Herm Edwards sat down one day and said: "Let's destroy our offensive line in the off-season, guys!" I think this was a bad decision made by many peolpe: Herm Bradway, and our current owner, Mr. Woody Johson, who obviously had a lot to learn about signing the right athletes. I have SO BUSTED all of you on this issue that NO ONE will dare to admit that a STUPID IDIOT LIKE ME called it right! But there you go. Anyhow, this is the bottom line: I am right, and you are wrong, and you guys just cannot deal with that, can you?
I agree with some of your post although I can't help but laugh at a lot of the Herm Edwards Man-love. In this part I quoted, you are a bit confused, however. Unitas was out for the majority of that season with an injury to his throwing arm, and the Colts were led to the Super Bowl and led in the first half of the Super Bowl by a guy named Earl Morrall who had a somewhat similar career to Vinny Testeverde; he had played on 4 different teams in a little over a decade with early high hopes from the teams that acquired him (drafted with a 1st rounder and traded for one) and good stats for the period he played for them... and had a phoenix-esque late career being played in an emergency role and played very well for that season. (get the Vinny comparison yet?) Morrall even played well enough to win the NFL's MVP award. And with Earl Morrall, the Colts were considered the heavy favorite to win against the barn-burning New York Jets and their young gunslinger, He Who Dared Snub The NFL, Joe Willie Namath. Then the Jets defense, a defense I remember Buddy Ryan saying on TV in an interview on ESPN in '00 or '01 was what he considered the best defense he ever coached for almost 2 decades after his Bears defense destroyed the entire NFL and won a Super Bowl, rendered Morrall ineffective. Shula inserted the not-quite-healthy Unitas into the game in the second half and had just as much success against that defense. You comparison is flawed.
