What I find amazing is that TJ still managed to average over 4 yds a carry when he knew there were going to be 8 or 9 people at the LOS trying to stop him. Every game I watch him play I hope we find some sorta way to keep him here next year. Shonn Greeene needs to learn how to carry the ball. If he does he will also be killer.
Clemens did what he had to do; not turn the ball over (at all). Some throws were pretty good and some throws were off. He was quite late on some of his throws. Still looks a bit antsy in the pocket. But, all in all, pretty much what I expected. Since the Fins and Pats won, too; it means now more than ever, we must win out if we wish to try and play in January. Atlanta is next and we should, on paper, kick their butts. We still have to have a very good game plan and everyone on the team has to play their hearts out like a playoff game. We can't allow a team that we should beat handily, think they have a chance to win. The execution of our overall game theme yesterday was flawless. Tire the other team out and keep putting some kind of points on the board while using the running game heavily. Shonn Green has to do a better job of taking care of the footbal, but I still think he has tremendous potential to be a very, very good runner. The couple of plays I saw Gholston on yesterday, he actually did a pretty good job. He took on blockers allowing the other guys to get to the QB. He is still light years away from being what we thought he could be. Rhodes had a pretty decent game. That interception was almost ballet-like in terms of athleticism. It really was pretty to watch in slow-motion. Rhodes still needs to step on the gas and/or keep up the improved play. Strickland and Sheppard had very good games. How about Ahigdebu (sp)? That sack was great. Pace - great performance. Revis; few words describe how great his play is. Scott; good game, but the penalty was really, really, really stupid. It didn't cost us too much yesterday, but do that kind of stuff against a Miami, Pats, Colts, or Cinci and it could easily cost you the game. Jones; trading this guy would be stupid.
I will give Clemens credit...he protected the ball a lot better this week. But he's also a QB at the NFL level, junc...plus he's been in this system for 4 years. I expect him to at least come in and hit his wide-open receivers with catchable passes. I mean..c'mon now. thank god we have a stout defense...and a kicker that can hit FGs consistently.
We need wins at this point in the season and he didn't hurt us from winning. he was terrible throwing the football although late in the 3rd he did get into a little rythm and was playing well but overall he was not good throwing it but he didn't hurt us and that's all we needed.
About Sanchez - "Hey, of course he's going to make mistakes! But you have to leave him in there! He's not going to get better sitting on the sidelines!" About Clemens - "This guy's been on the team for four years! You would expect someone who has been sitting on the sidelines most of that time to play much better than our first round draft pick rookie! I mean he's got to be watching and learning, no?" Facts - Sanchez season record/Clemens against TB Sanchez completion rate: 53.2% Clemens completion rate: 52.2% Sanchez Qb rating: 63.7 Clemens Qb rating: 65.7 Sanchez won lost record percentage: .500 Clemens won lost record percentage: 1.000 Sanchez interceptions: 17 Clemens interceptions: 0 Sanchez fumbles: 10, lost 3 Clemens fumbles: 0 (against Buffalo 1, lost 0) Sanchez sacks: 22 for 169 yds Clemens sacks: 1 for 3 yds Hey, I am disappointed Clemens did not play better yesterday, and his haters may well be right that he won't be on the Jets next year. But at least from the numbers I don't see how one can argue that Sanchez is obviously the better Qb of the two, at least so far this year. Yes, I didn't put up TD totals, but MS still has notably fewer TD's than ints. Sanchez has more promise. And while I do think TB's D is MUCH better than their O, they are still a 1-12 opponent. Still, Clemens did not lose the game, and allowed the rest of the team to win it, something Sanchez did not do at least three times this season. Arguably the team would be comfortably playoff bound with Clemens if he had started all year, but that consideration is not a popular one here, I would guess. And of course if it is such a great thing for Sanchez's development that he plays and plays through bad games, I am not sure why that view does not also apply to Clemens. Oh well, the real good news is the Jets won. Going forward I have no doubt if Sanchez is healthy the team will put him back in there. But if he needs to rehab another week, I am not going to worry about Clemens starting another game. I mean it's not like the Jets would be sitting down the second coming of Johnny Unitas. And I will also agree it is not likely Clemens will be on the team next year, so there's not really much more that needs be said about him. Unless he has to start against Atlanta. Which will not imo be a bad thing.
^ Clemens was subpar yesterday...against a 1-11 team.....if the Jets continue to play russian roulette with their playoff hopes and rely on Clemens....it will bite them in the ass. Atlanta>Tampa Bay BTW...Sanchez is a rookie....you can compare stats with Clemens after he's been in the league for 4 years.....comparing stats now is ridiculous.
BB- Mark has been in this system for 12 games, while Kellen has been in it for 4 years. So even if I take your approach and saying they're even (which they aren't), wouldn't you rather have our future in their and getting more games under his belt?? Kellen is not good, I doubt he could've drove us down the field like Mark has done for what should've been game winning drives.
I was entertained by the defensive play, even if it was a bad team. Great defenses should dominate bad teams like that and they did. The offense - well, I guess that both Ainge and Clemens suck in the eyes of the offensive staff, because that was a show of zero confidence from Schotty with the amount of times Brad Smith was taking the snap. Not that I disapproved of the playcalling this time around (minus the idiotic double reverse), it was boring offensive football but they kept with the running game and ground away and ended up breaking TJ loose a couple of times for a couple of TDs. I'll take a boring win over an exciting loss any day of the week.
This is not mostly about Clemens, it is about the notion that Sanchez needs to be playing to play well. How come that does not apply to Clemens? "Been in the league four years!" He's had fewer starts than Sanchez. That's all I'm saying, that and that if Sanchez had been playing the same no turnover football Clemens did yesterday, the Jets would be 10-3.
Great post up there Hornet. BB, come on. Clemens was barely acceptable at his best yesterday. Had he played like that against a team that will win more than a single game this year we'd have lost. He didn't lose the game because Scottenheimer didn't allow him too. Yeah, let's hear it. Schotty SUCKS, blah, blah, blah. Here's something no one is talking about. The "cutesy" shit yesterday was absolutely necessary. The passing game was atrocious. Not bad, not really bad, not terrible. Atrocious. Thomas Jones, Shonn Greene, and Brad Smith moved the ball downfield on offense. Clemens made a couple acceptable passes in the second half. That's unacceptable for a player with 4 years in a system, against one of the league's worst teams, with fantastic field position all day long. Kellen Clemens didn't lose yesterday because he wasn't allowed to. And for no other reason than that. As far as the defense, I don't know how anyone isn't incredibly impressed with it. On 20 plays in the first half they allowed 19 yards. Think about that. I don't care if you're playing West Waverly Community College, holding an offense to less than a yard per play in a full half of football is incredible. Not good. Not great. Incredible. They seemed to play a bit off in the second half, like a semi-prevent, which allowed the Bucs to move the ball more. And of course, if not for a brain fart by Bart, it would have still probably ended in a shutout. I don't care how "boring" people think games like this are. Give me this boring every week and let me be excited in early February at the parade.
This is a great example of why just looking at the numbers is a terrible indicator (by itself) when it comes to football. Just looking at the numbers you posted, you would never come to the conclusion that Sanchez is better than Clemens. Obviously, and if it's not obvious then I can't help you, Sanchez is the better QB by a country mile. Sanchez had three "rookie games" this year that make his overall numbers look pretty bad. Outside of those games he has played well. Not great, but he's played well. Most of the negatives we've seen from Sanchez were a result of him being a rookie IMO (poor reads, bad decisions). Most of the negatives we've seen from Clemens are physical issues that will likely never be overcome. He has terrible footwork, terrible accuracy and just plain doesn't seem like an athlete out there. Sanchez has shown great footwork and great accuracy. Obviously he needs to be more consistent with those things but again, I think/hope that will come with experience.
Plus he is comparing 12 games by a rookie vs all different teams to one game by a veteran against arguably the worst team in football. The win pct and INTs are particularly laughable in this case. You can use numbers to paint a lot of diferent pictures, not all of them true. I know this, I'm a salesman.
if clemens is playing against a good team with an offense that may have forced him to need to make some plays do you think he plays that same no turnover game? look at your numbers all you want but i think it is pretty obvious from observing the play of both players that sanchez has more potential and talent by a long shot.
Have you been taking omission lessons from Hobbes? How 'bout these stats? Sancho: 171 passing yards per game MBClemens: 125 passing yards per game Sancho: 6.9 yards per completion MBClemens: 4.8 yards per completion ...also, their QB ratings according to NFL.com are 63.7 and 63.8 respectively. This means that while KC proved himself the safer QB yesterday, he also showed himself to be the same gutless, confused passer that everyone on this board was worried about. Sure, his safe play could have won a coupla more games this year, but be honest, there is no way that deer we saw yesterday at Raymond James has what it takes to fight through the playoffs to a Super Bowl victory. Sancho has shown himself to already be the better of the two QBs in his limited time in the NFL. Our team's future can only be enhanced by having the obvious choice playing games and getting that experience under his belt. Though I do think this brief rest may be what he needed to step back and take a breather and maybe understand better security, with the ball AND his body.
I can't say gutless. He was under strict orders to protect the ball and not blow the game going in, and he did what he was asked to do. He missed some guys and got it going late, but I can't go that far and call him gutless. Smart, team player in that case, to be fair. We got the lead and that pulled the reigns in even more. I agree here, especially about the rest. It may turn out to be an unplanned antidote to the "rookie wall", even though Sanchez is from USC and they play longer than the Jets do a lot of years. I think the break, rest and watching a game without being in it can only help him the rest of the way. Like another bye week for him.
I said in my previous post that Sanchez has more promise. Yes, that is not apparent from the stats, but it is from the way he looks more comfortable most of the time. And not to digress but the point raised about ypa being a stat that makes Sanchez look better is a bit unfair since the playcalling yesterday included some dumpoff passes that were poorly drawn up with no yards after the catch. Balls thrown down the field picked up good yardage. I was really trying to make three points, none of them being that I think in the long run that Clemens is the better Qb. I don't believe that and said that I think Sanchez has more promise. But still... 1. You left out Sanchez's propensity to commit turnovers. I certainly hope this is a function of rookie mistakes that he will overcome. It is unfortunately not at all clear at this point that he will. Cutler is also a four year player, as Clemens is, and has a lot of talent, but he makes far too many mistakes in turning the ball over. Merely playing a few more years in and of itself is no assurance Sanchez will cut down on the turnovers. 2. The Jets needed a win over an inferior opponent yesterday. For all his problems, Clemens did what he had to to avoid giving that opponent a better chance to win the game. We can't say the same for Sanchez in every game he has played this year. Speaking personally perhaps the most frustrating thing I find in being a Jet fan is when the players play down to the level of inferior opponents. The Jets got that win yesterday with their backup Qb. By that measure, and despite the negatives said here about that player, he did his job. Yes, maybe yesterday's performance would not have been so effective against a better team (although I think TB's D is far better than their O). But yesterday the backup did what he is supposed to do, and perhaps I should not be surprised there are a number of messages today that dump on him, but it does strike me as a bit off putting. 3. More generally some of the standards and measures some assert here for assessing talent are inconsistently applied. The logic of saying Clemens has been with the team four years and should be able to show more clashes with the notion that playing Sanchez, despite his poor showings and novice status, is good for the development of his talent is only one such inconsistency. The simple fact of the matter is that comparing these two players in an inconsistent manner, leading to the conclusion that Clemens is inadequate, hardly means that there remain no real questions about Sanchez. I think despite my view that Sanchez has that promise we see in him that it is far from clear that he is a lock to become a consistent quality starter capable of doing enough at some point to win a championship. Saying that Clemens is trash on a message board does not make Sanchez more of that type of Qb I certainly hope he proves to be.
How so when the D blew the Miami(@ Mia) game and the jax game and STs blew the Miami home game. Sanchez has played well enough to win 9 of 12 games and we were 6-6 in his 12 starts. Anyone who has watched the 2 play knows it's not even a discussion as far as who is better and which QB we are better off starting. 12 of Sanchez's INts came in 3 games, when he's been bad he's been really bad but outside of those 3 awful games he's played very well.
Something else to consider. If the same exact gameplan/playcalling happens yesterday and Sanchez is the QB, do we fare even better? I think any reasonable person would say Sanchez hits those throws that Clemens put in the parking lot.
I would think the one to Cotchery in the end zone, Sanchez has been hitting that one all year. Clemens probably hits it 7 or 8 out of 10 times, there's 4 more points right there.
