I don't think people WANT Geno to fail so much as people EXPECT him to fail. We've emotionally invested in young qbs who never develop and I think people just want to spare themselves the heartache. But don't mistake an expectation for a desire. We'd all sign up for a quality geno smith in a heartbeat. People are just going off their 2 year experience with what they've seen. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I know Geno's stregnths and i also know that west coast bull shit was never going to help him succeed. He said himself he feels like a robot running that system, it's not for him. When we let Geno sling it he's doesn't do that bad. They let him do his own thing vs Miami and look how that turned out, him and decker were up and down the field all day. I'm just saying give the kid a chance under a real coaching staff that will actually DEVELOP him and not just throw him out there to make a fool of himself. If it doesn't work out, then we have FitzASStrick to lean on -_- , if it does.. lets go Geno!!
I don't care about geno playing catch with anyone.. He needs get on the phone with chad Pennington and learn how to read defenses.
+1 If Marshall takes Geno under his wing, it could really help his development. Not to mention the fact that we finally have a real OC, and Geno finally has a good group of receivers to throw to! I can't wait to see this new offense in the preseason!!
It's not me limiting the offense to suit Geno. Rumor has it that Chan Gailey will install a down field spread offense, which is diametrically opposed to our 'modified west coast offense' we ran under rex/marty. I suggested that Geno could do better in a spread offense with the QB in shotgun by design. More similar to his college offense where he excelled. Here's another potential positive for Geno: When the pocket breaks down under an intense 3rd and long pass rush Fitzpatrick's ceiling is to throw the ball away and avoid the sack. Geno's ceiling is to juke the pass rushers and run 15 yards for a 1st down.
We saw plenty of Smith in the shotgun the last two years. He was ineffective for the most part. And in 13 it was only when the Jets shortened the passing routes that his int's went down. I noted how this also lead to his ypa going down, and for the most part there was no improvement in 14 despite the "evidence" Smith Fans were touting last off season. As far as what Smith excelled in in college, I note this Scouting report on him from the 13 pre-season: Experienced and fits well in a West Coast offense http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2013gsmith.php Then there's this: Geno Smith and the West Coast Offense By Drew Ferraro August 22, 2013 7:30 am EDT Prior to the NFL Draft, Michael Smith of ESPN’s Numbers Never Lie broke down Geno Smith’s completion percentage at West Virginia. I remember watching this thinking, “Hmm, these numbers are deceiving.” But all of this surrounds the offense that he ran at West Virginia. It’s a spread offense with the quarterback getting the snap primarily out of the shotgun. This hurt Geno coming into the NFL, where quarterbacks need to be comfortable lining up under center, as well as in the gun. But back to the numbers… Michael Smith went on to say that Geno Smith completed an eye-popping 78 percent of his passes at 15 yards or less. That’s a major concern IF (big if) he’s on another NFL team. NFL experts and draft analysts would repeatedly note that Geno fits best in a West Coast offense. Wait, isn’t that what Marty Mornhinweg just installed this offseason? Yes, it is. Many seem to forget that Geno does fit in a west coast system, and that he has had a lot of success making the same throws that he will be asked to make as a Jet. The West Coast Offense features a lot of short/quick passes, setting up receivers, tight ends, or backs to get yards after the catch. These passes will often involve horizontal and crossing routes that can expose a defense. Smith can execute those types of throws. It’s not a shocker. It’s exactly what he did at West Virginia and he was darn good at it. Take a look at this screenshot from Numbers Never Lie: The video’s intention was to bring awareness to Geno Smith’s numbers, saying that he didn’t have a good collegial career slinging the ball around (deep). Usually, when a player enters the draft, that’s not a good reputation to have – not for a QB, especially one that could’ve gone to a variety of different teams with a variety of different offenses. Don’t get me wrong. Geno Smith is an excellent quarterback. I am not saying that he wouldn’t have success on a different team. My point is Geno happens to fit perfectly in this offense. Considering that 28 percent of his passes at WVU came at or behind the line of scrimmage, Smith will have no problem adjusting to his (new) NFL playbook. It’s widely known that a West Coast Offense relies heavily on screen passes. So who would you rather throw those passes? Geno Smith or Mark Sanchez? History has my vote. Here's the link if you want to see the referenced video: http://cover32.com/jets/2013/08/22/geno-smith-and-the-west-coast-offense/ In short the point is the take on Smith before 13 WAS that he was well suited to the WCO. Turns out he didnt succeed in it, but does that mean we all should have seen he would in fact fail at it, was not suited to it in the sense that he was better suited to something else? Or is this notion that it wsa really the system and not his own deficiencies as a player that were behind is failure? In any event i see no reason to think Smith slinging the ball downfield is suddenly going to reap success. Opponents will adjust, he will still fail to read the D, and interceptions will still occur.
So were a lot of OGs, WRs, RBs on the Jets. "And in 13 it was only when the Jets shortened the passing routes that his int's went down." Could that be because the entire WR corps had no deep speed? Your post, while including a large story from 2013, seems to ignore the fact that his first year, he had, uh, can you name a competent WR he had to throw to? and in his second year, the competent WR they brought in--a possession receiver with no real deep speed--was injured to some degree for most of the year. It was only after the Jets traded for Harvin that anyone could accurately state that the Jets had a consistent deep threat and NFL caliber corps of WRs. The time period Smith had virtually NO HELP at WR includes more than one and a half seasons. So, as a Smith Fan, I'd have to ask: why do the Smith Haters refuse to mention that Smith's targets were awful his entire first season and most of his second? That the OL sucked (two of the worst rated OGs in the NFL) and that when it stopped sucking so badly Smith's performance improved? Why do they completely discount his good moments? Smith is not a world beater, for sure. But, man, doesn't the lack of talent surrounding him at all matter in assessing his performance and potential?
The OL did not suck, Smith also had the 6th ranked running game behind him, his receivers were not as bad as you say, and even assuming bad receivers such are no excuse for throwing interceptions and putting the ball on the ground. You choose to ignore these factors since Smith Fans look to blame everyone else for his failures, but SMith himself. That is because Smith fans either have some other agenda, don't know the game very well, or both.
if geno beats out fitz in camp i think we are in trouble. regardless of how much he and marshall are working out
agree with this. smith WRs may suck, but what is the excuse for constantly missing them when they are open? if he was drilling guys between the numbers and they coudlnt hang on thats one thing. overthrowing decker by 10 yards when he has 15 yards of seperation isnt on the WR corps
While Geno has the potential to play well in a West Coast system, that system was less suited to him originally than a spread system with vertical elements. The prototypical West Coast QB relies is very accurate, mobile, heady, has a weak arm but a quick release and advanced footwork. Current starter caliber QBs that fit this profile are guys like Alex Smith, Ryan Fitzpatrick (not very accurate but has improved) and Chad Pennington. Potential starters that fit this profile are Matt Barkley, Jimmy Clausen and Cody Kessler. Importantly a QB needs strong and consistent footwork to succeed in the WCO. Alex Smith has it (now), but Geno didn't have the footwork mastery to fit into the system at first. His focus on footwork while doing 3-, 5- and 7- step drops was robotic and likely took away from his reads. Geno is originally an athletic Air Raid QB so until he improves his pocket footwork (i.e. he is stepping up now but wasn't pre-benching), and can do a 3-,5- and 7- step drop without taking away from anything else (i.e. concentration), the best fit for him is exactly what Gailey prescribes: a spread system with vertical elements. While Geno has the foot speed and ability to learn the WCO, Gailey's system is more in line with what he already knows. Mariota and Manziel (who is probably a bust) will face the same issues. Only QBs with very strong footwork can succeed in a WCO right away (i.e. Andy Dalton etc). Those QBs typically have a low ceiling though (i.e. Dalton) because of how much mastery they have of their footwork and how little they get out of it (i.e. Alex Smith).
This is well put. Geno is just not a rythm/timing passer. If you spread out the field (emphasis on the word spread) and give him reads deep down the field and the option to run if nothing is open, he's much, much better. And that's not to say he can't be a good QB in this league; you don't have to be a Manning/Brady-like rythm short passer; Andrew Luck and Aaron Rodgers are both guys that like their reads deep down the field and to extend plays themselves. If Geno feels like a robot in a timing offense, then the Jets shouldn't be running that type of offense. I can't stand when coaches try to conform players to fit their schemes instead of vice versa.
So, that's why they just signed two OGs in free agency and why the OG, Winters, was rated dead last in the NFL by PFF before he lost his job to another rookie, one drafted after him. The Jets OL was rated by some advanced metrics site as the 31st rated OL in the NFL. That's not a Smith-lovers site, it's an objective rating of the OL's sucktitude. The argument "the WR may suck..." No, they DID suck. So, let's not sugarcoat that. Missing them when they are open can be the result of numerous issues, not all of them the quality of QB play. C'mon man! At least admit the cast around Smith was not very good for most of his tenure. It doesn't completely excuse not him being better, but it is a mitigating factor. The notion that he can't be better seems unsubstantiated because when the receivers were healthy and of quality and the OL play stabilized to something resembling a quality OL, Smith played better. I'm sorry those facts don't register with the Smith Haters Club, but they are facts none the less.
Exactly. Dropped passes, batted balls that were intercepted, receivers going up for it and defenders getting the ball instead, those were not the pattern of Smith's interceptions. It was him throwing to the other team.
PFF ranked the Jets' OL 8th in pass blocking in 2014. https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/01/08/2014-pff-offensive-line-rankings/3/ Give it up, Smith Fan.
Bullshit! There were plenty of drops. And, seriously, how often was the slowest WR corps in football going to get 15 yards of separation?! Please...pick a lie that is remotely believable.
