For argument sake!!! Outside the Box Thinking

Thank you. Greene isnt the workhorse that this ground and pound team needs to be centered around. Im hoping for one of the top 4 backs (T Rich which wont happen, Doug Martin a personal favorite but doubt he will make it to 47, Lamar Miller and David Wilson, although Wilson’s fumbling issue scares me a little and I would’ve liked to see him run between the tackles more). At the very least these four could share a significant amount of the load and potentially take over in a year and maybe fill that void of a #1 back.

 

I think we saw in Denver that Powell has a long way to go to even become mediocre.

 

1. I actually suggest you read the commentary about Lead Draw. You will notice something about your logic there then.

True, Jets passing attack is an absolute joke compared to the aerial assault led by Aikman and Irvin, (and that's a very generous assessment) but the point is, you need to design plays that fit the strength of your personnel, not the other way around. (Which Schottenheimer was utterly incapable of.) I also dropped the mention of Reggie Bush simply for that reason as well - in NO, he was not viewed as a viable RB that could generate enough production between tackles (which was why he was cut later.) And... voila. He did just that in Miami. It's more of whether the OC knows how to utilize the strength of his players or not. For now, Jets have two power backs in Greene and Powell, and slashing RB in McKnight. I don't know if Conner will actually grow into a good lead blocker, but if the OL and FB learns to work in conjunction within the running scheme, I don't see why the committee of Greene/Powell/McKnight won't be able to get the production on the ground - especially if Sparano can get that 1000+ yard production out of Reggie Bush, of all people.

2. Defense - especially the pass rushing OLB - needs a huge boost in terms of talent. That can't be overlooked. The only exception I might make is if either Dontari Poe is available, or a very good 3-4 DE drops. Other than these two situations, I would like to see the Jets addressing OLB with 1st round pick - and either safety or RT with 2nd.

 

Anybody could look miserable in Schottenheimer's offense though.

 

Because players don't improve? All I'm saying is that the jets have bigger needs to fill than runningback. We already have 3 on our roster, we drafted 2 rbs for the purpose of developing them to eventually play significant snaps on the field. So why not see if McKnight and Powell are capable before we decide to draft more rbs?

 

That's a whole nother thread.

 

As others have said, the Jets need to learn how to build through the draft instead of constantly overpaying for other teams' sloppy seconds.

 

Definitely agree....

 

Thank you... Look at k. wilson what a difference a year makes. It took a year for Mcknight to show he can return, next year maybe he will show us his slashing skills as a 3rd down back, like Leon Washington was for us.

Lets give our guys a chance before they produce for other teams.

 

Reggie Bush had all the talent, he just couldnt stay healthy. That was most of his problem... The way I look at it, the Jets live off the run game, and wherever it goes, the Jets go. The run game dictates the flow of the offense and defense. Its the way Sparano and Rex want to play. Resting all of that on a good #2 back and 2 unprovens is a little too risky for me. If McKnight turns out to be nothing more than a STs player and a pass catching back and Powell isnt anything great, then we are in deep shit (and I think this is a lot more likely than anything else).

And I will agree that the 1st pick should be at OLB, given value, but Dontari Poe and Brockers (the DE im assuming you are talking about) should not even be in the discussion- 2 most overrrated players in the draft by far. And I hihly doubt we go OL in the 2nd, its looking like safety, or maybe WR.

 

You said his ypc indicates that he is elite. You were wrong. lynch and benson aren't elite either.

Not fumbling doesn't make you elite either..

but let's just talk about my fantasy team. Do I keep jamaal charles or chris johnson?

 

I never said he is ELITE! I said he is a #1 back for the JETS and more close to a top 10 back than a bottom 10 back like some here try to portray him as.

My point is if a rb averages over 4 ypc, and gains over a 1000 yards on a poor passing team, he deserves to be a starting rb. That also means you dont have to spend your 1st rd draft pick on a rb. When you need help on the def line, safety, and oline positions rb priority takes a back seat to those positions.

Maybe the production from Curtis Martin, Thomas Jones, and the great offensive line spoiled us.

Usually a 1000 yard season over 4ypc, and only 1 fumble equals to a successful season.

Finally fumbles in a Rex Ryan ground and pound team are a priority. Ask Joe Mcknight, and even Shonn Greene. Here is a link:

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/09/16/jets-greene-i-was-benched-after-fumbles/

 

i misread your post. sorry about that.

the thing about shonn greene is that he is just adequate. he takes what the oline gives him and nothing more. he's not fast and he's not a bruiser. he doesn't break tackles. he just runs until a defender meets him and then is brought down.

if the offense is going to revolve around the run game, then it would be ideal to upgrade the rb position. a lot of people argue that rb is a plug and play spot, but the guys we've plugged in haven't really worked out. mcknight hasn't shown anything as a rb and powell is even more of a question mark.

i don't think trading for ray rice is a good idea. but from all that i've heard about richardson.. i think it would be a great pickup at that point. the only other option at 16 i think would be a passrusher.

also, i would take arian foster and his 4 fumbles over greene and his 1 fumble every time. ball security is a nice trait to have, but when it's your biggest strength as a rb, it's really not saying much about your talent.

 

Just like LT his first year and Thomas Jones did right? Blaming Schotty for Powell's bad game is just silly. If he was such an awful OC then why are people still so negative around here?

 

No prob misreading...

If you feel Greene is just adequate then that is fine. I wonder how the giants feel abt their running situation, Green Bay, the Lions, Saints, etc...

Also I got interesting stat on Greene:

According to Stats Inc., Greene was “stuffed” (tackled for loss) just 16 times in his 253 carries, a 6.3 percent rate that was second-best among the 53 RBs with at least 100 carries last year and best among the 31 backs with at least 150 carries. That tendency came in handy en route to Shonn’s first 1,000-yard season as a pro, 1,054 to be exact.

I got it from:

http://blog.newyorkjets.com/2012/04/09/more-on-hayden-and-some-yearbook-nuggets/

So Greene is amongst the best in not fumbling, and not getting tackled for loss. I think combined that with with his solid ypc, and young age he is def not a problem for us, and is our undisputed #1 rb.

 

um,because we are jet fans?

 

Bradshaw is more talented than Greene, so are Sproles, Ingram and Best when healthy. But the HUGE difference from our run game from the Giants, Pats, Saints, Packers, Lions ect. is that their run game is a compliment to their passing game. Our passing game is a compliment to our run game. Once again, our team lives off the ground game; their’s do not. The only few teams that could be compared to the Jets offense are the 49ers, Ravens and Texans. All of them have Elite RB’s (and the Texans have 2 backs that would start on this team).

And as for your stats, I dont think that particular stat matters much. Greene is the type of runner that will take whats their but wont do ANYTHING special. Yeah, he might not lose yards, but he wont give you those 10-15 yard chunks that help boost a drive. Barry Sanders had the most negative yards in NFL history, but I would say that it was worth it considering he’s a top 3 back of all time.

Like Rawk said, Greene is adequate on a normal team. I mean if I were the Packers or Lions I would be totally fine with Greene as my starting RB. But on a run first team, it is very hard to be okay with just an okay RB.

Heres a nice stat for you, since you’re all about that:
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2011/broken-tackles-2010-part-ii

I think it points out the misconception of Greene being a power runner. So if he doesnt break tackles, what does he do well or above average? I mean if the only thing he does well is not getting tackled for a loss, then that might say it all.

 

I dont think he can be a top 5 back... But the second part I completely agree with. Greene isnt a bruiser towards the defense; he injures himself more than the defense. His running style hurts himself and I dont trust him being able to endure a whole season (especially if we even want to think about the playoffs).

What if Greene does get hurt? Like to the point where he has to sit out for a game, or two or three... Joe McKnight??? I mean I really like MnKnight in specific roles, but I do not think he can handle a load.

 

The odds of Greene being a top 5 back are very, very low IMO. He just isn't that talented of a RB.