For All The Herm Lovers

I forget but were Garnes and Carter released after the draft? If so, could it be that they were released because the Jets felt comfortable with Coleman?

Jordan did want more carries and was vocal about that and I have no issue with anyone saying he deserved more. I'm just saying it's a far cry from Jordan deserving a bit more playing time then saying he should've been starting over CMart.

 

They were both released on March 1st of 04

 

Nyjunc, you have to be the only Jets fan and perhaps the only person on the face of the earth besides Terry Bradway who attempts to defend this horrendous draft pick. You can opine any way you wish, it's certainly a free country and fortunately this is a board open to a variety of ideas and opinions, but you have to be aware that your credibility is seriously damaged by your position on this catastrophe.

Cut all the bullshit, do you really think that Bradway, coming off having recently been fleeced unmercifully by Dan Snyder and knowing he needed to make a spectacular splash to dispell rumors he routinely walks around with his head quite far up his @ss, makes an intelligent choice here when he trades two good 1st Rounders for DROB? And it came out later that HE KNEW that DROB had the problem with his knee! Are you really attempting to defend this?

I mean, seriously, you need to explain to me how this is a smart decision. What scares me the most is, it's guys like you who will defend doing it again! Tell you what, this draft pick goes down in NFL history as one of the most ludicrous draft manuevers ever, period, any way you slice it. You need to seriously assess your thinking on this one before your credibility as a poster tanks completely.

 

His lack of understanding of the importance of an OL? I guess that's why he drafted kareem, signed moore, Kendall, extended fabini & mawae, drafted Jones and Cavka and others.

Thomas was vastly overpaid, you do not pay G's like Tackel's and that's what Wash did. We rebounded nicely w/ kendall a year later who is almsot as good as Thomas at a fraction of the price.

Would the 3 mean that much? Sure I would rather have had a 1 and a 3 than just a 1 but is it that big of deal? Prior to that no one signed RFA's so it was unexpected.

Yeah Snyder never wastes money and draft picks. Don't believe a word that man says.

We gave him some more money but it was alot less than if we had matched in '03.

Not at the price we wanted to sign him for.

Bradway did not originally sign him, Coles was drafted in '00 and Bradway took over in '01.

We lost a 3rd rd pick, not a huge deal. No one signed RFA's back then so it was a shock around the league when Coles was signed by Wash. EVERY single GM would have given the tender we gave him.

tongue was brought in to start and Coleman beat out Tongue as Tongue was hurt in TC then Tongue took over for McGraw.

Fleeced? EVERY single one of theose moves worked out better for us than Washington- how were we fleeced?

 

I think hindsight is showing that TB wasn't truly fleeced by Snyder by any stretch. It may have looked bad at the time but look at what both teams did since those moves? They paid those guys a lot of money and never did any better then us and in fact did worse.

I would also say that while there were mistakes made by TB and company back then it's not as cut and dry as saying we were fleeced. Neither Thomas nor Hall were worth the money they wanted even if it did take longer then they hoped to adequately replace Thomas. Hall was not missed the next year. Coles was missed but Moss stepped up and actually produced more in terms of TDs then Coles did the year before. The Morton thing looked worse then it did because of the whole arbitration BS but again worked out best for us as he did very little with the Skins and while I personally liked him he wasn't worth all that money if they didn't have room for him to get more touches as a RB.

 

Hi Dog. I do understand what you're saying, but I'm not talking about hindsight. I'm talking about that point in time. At that time, TB was perceived to have been taken to the cleaner big time. Most Jets fans were livid if you'll recall. The theory (and I do buy into this) is that TB was so scorched by Snyder at the time that it in fact clouded his judgement. He needed to do something spectacular, some sort of blockbuster deal extraordinaire to justify his draft prowess. In making the deal he made, he certainly grabbed the attention his ego so desperately needed, but it was also one of the most stupid decisions in NFL draft history, IMO.

PS: Take a look at the "Smiles" selections. The following illustrates the amount of frustration most Jets fans felt at the time:

:deadskins:

 

and most Jet fans were wrong at the time. We simply could not afford to pay those players, they were good but not irreplaceable, what wash was paying them. There was little doubt at the time we made the right moves and that showed the next few years. It sucked to lose them but they were the correct moves to make.

 

For the most part, the young guys that took the field were by necessity, not by choice. I supported Herm for the most part while he was here, but my main gripe with him was his over-reliance on the veterans of the team.

 

You're absolutely right but wouldn't that show that us fans can be very wrong too? There are still a few people who still think that Terry got fleeced and point to it as examples of his poor body of work.

As for D-Rob we probably did overpay to get him, but at the time we had a massive need at DT and this was the top guy on most people's draftboard. Plus he was highly sought after by many accounts. I don't think the Washington situation made TB make the move but I think having that extra first round pick allowed it to happen. While I know there is a big difference between a DT and a possible franchise QB look at how much the Giants gave up for Eli, especially when you consider what they could've had without giving up all of it.

Again, I can see how people think we overpaid and I would even agree we gave up a bit too much but I don't see it as being a travesty as others do. I see it as a GM who made a mistake GMs make from time to time.

 

My point is that we don't know that it was necessity. Sure in some cases it was like DRob but Cowart actually did seem to beat out Vilma for the job. Coleman did beat out Tongue who was a vet so that goes against the theory. I would also add that on many teams rookies start due to necessity and not because they earned their spot so even if that were the case it's not like it's unique to Herm and/or the Jets.

Also, many times the games themselves dictated who played and how much. By that I mean someone like Cotchery might have seen the field a lot more had the offense produced more when out there or even looked to have done more if our offense (mainly last year) was able to utilize it's weapons better.

The one example I go back to is Hobson and either Mo or Marvin. Hobson should've played more but from what I saw and even heard it was TC who kept Hobson off the field over Herm. TC had actually downplayed Hobson's ability on a few occassions when interviewed after a game. Now maybe Herm should've pushed TC more to get Hobson on the field but that's a long way from saying he held him back. Herm did seem to give his coordinators a bit too much leeway at times so that fits with what that theory.

Keep in mind, one of the reasons Herm hired DH was because of his work with younger guys. That makes no sense if he didn't want to utilize them. And if he truly didn't like playing young guys then why would he cut pretty much all the veteran safeties so basically Rhodes did have to start?

Like I said, this to me, is just one of a couple of fun "Hermban Myths" people like to bring up but I personally find that what few facts there are point in the other direction.

 

Okay, so now you don't want to acknowledge the fiasco this was perceived as at the time because to do so adds strength to my argument that TB overreacted and made the decision he made on DROB as a result. There was little doubt at the time that we made the right moves?

That being your position, I'll have to drop that part of my argument even though we're actually rewriting history here. My recallection is somewhat different than yours, but okay, I'll go along with this. So now, losing Coles, Hall, et al was seen AT THE TIME as a wise move, not an inexcusable blunder. Okay.

But still, wasn't TB's trading of TWO 1st Round... oh forget it. I'm not going to get anywhere with this. I give. It was a smart move also... trading up 2 1st round picks is a stroke of genius.

 

I guess we'll just agree to disagree because I just didn't like the way the young players were brought along.

 

Are you the same people who can't stop talking about your Ex to your new GF or BF or whatever? HERM is GONE!! Like it or hate it get over it.

 

There was little doubt by myself and i posted that 3 years ago. They had to make tough decisions but it was for the best and they did an excellent job.

By folks who couldn't look past the immediate consequences and overreact to every move made they went nuts, I saw them as solid moves that we needed for the future. NONE of thoe guys were irreplaceable.

Stop being dumb, I already acknowledged that move could be perceived as not a good one but I think someone like you goes way overboard calling it one of the worst moves ever.

 

Stop being dumb? Personal attack? Why, I'm shocked, nyunc.

You can't back up what you say. Defending TB on this one is a loser. Your credibility with me and most others on this board is now zero. Post away if you will, but your posts are worthless. Goodbye.