It's not all about fantasy #s and team wins play a part. Everything I throw out supports my argument, it's how you differentiate the top QBs. I judge QBs on how they lead their team and who elevates their team more. Favre obviously elevated GB but to me he takes a hit as his career went downhill after Holmgren left and he had problems elevating the team to similar heights in a weak div and conf. The back to back to back MVP awards are special, a rare feat but it still doesn't elevate him past a Montana or a Brady. Fantasy #s are one thing but coming through in big spots and in January mean more. Favre has been a mostly medicore QB this decade. He had an excellent year last year(ending w/ another subpar postseason game) but that was an aberration this decade. He has been mostly medicore which was one of the reasons I didn't want to make the deal and you cannot ignore that. it's not just about Championships but Favre had a championship caliber team in the mid-late 90s and he only won 1. Brady had one and won 3 in 4 years. It's not like Favre was QBing the '95 Jets. He had decent teams in an extremely weak division and conference from the late 90s through last year(the conf was better last year but not the div). we ignore the INTs? and all the playoff losses b/c he played so poorly? to recap we tout TDs and yards but ignore INts and how he performed in big games? OK.
Give it up Junc...there is no way you can keep bashing Favre with a straight face. It's a new low for even you. This is the same as your bashing of Arod. You just can't stand that your favorite NY players are no longer pertinent.
"Let's set something straight here: Favre is the greatest QB to ever play the game." While Favre definately deserves to be on the list of all time great quarterbacks, he IS NOT the best one to ever play the game. He makes more bad decisions and throws more game changing interceptions in crucial moments, than any other "all-time great" quarterback anyone would bother to name - and to me, that alone means you can't rank him number 1. Personally, if I had to choose one quarterback to start a big game for my team and I was allowed to pick anybody, I would take both Joe Montana and Tom Brady ahead of Favre without any hesitation.
It's not just about championships, but ... yes, it is all about championships. That's what you just said there, right? Got it. Yes, Marino sucked.
Actually, Favre's INT % is not that far off of other "great" quarterbacks. Someone once figured out how many were NOT thrown in the 4th Q when the Pack was behind, or the 3rd when he was not down buy >= 2TDs, and his ratio actually looked fairly good. Although his INTs this year so far haven't followed that pattern, admitted. There is something to be said for trying to win the game for your team instead of trying to protect your personal stats, you know. Do you remember the wk 1 game were he threw it up for grabs on 4th down & Stuckey caught it for TD? A reporter actually asked Mangini after the game, how many QBs would do that? Because the point was that even though it was a very smart move (you turn over the ball on downs if he takes that sack), QBs that give a d@mn about their personal INT stats would be better off statistically 9 times out of 10 to just take the sack. If you want a QB like that, bully for you, but thank god the Jets don't.
It's statements like these that cause you to have no credibility. You qualify Penny as a "great" QB, when he cannot even touch Favre's play this decade, and looks like a high school QB when compared to Favre's early years. It cannot be argued with any attempt at logic that if Favre has been mediocre the last decade, that Penny has been anything above atrocious. I don't care if you look at "fantasy numbers", wins, staying healthy, commercial deals, etc. Penny probably is better at signal calling from the sidelines hurt than Favre, but that is it. If you truly wish to argue that your above statement is true, then no one should take you seriously AT ALL. I haven't been on this board long, but it appears this may already be the case, and I am beginning to understand why.
I'm not arguing he is the best, this all started because someone posted its debatable if hes even top 10. That made me laugh. Then junc takes if further and says that Favre is "mediocre" while Penny is "very good". It makes my head hurt >.<
Actually, their place kicker won 3 out of 4. Brady did little as did Bellishit's defense in those games. Oh, and then there is last years SB too. I think you better get off your Brady high.
Uhm, all I said was that Favre, IN THE CONTEXT OF BEING CONSIDERED AN ALL-TIME GREAT QB, has been extremely mistake prone in critical situations and has cost his team MANY games by throwing careless interceptions. Also, he hasn't been a very good playoff performer in almost a decade now. He has had many bad playoff games with multiple, costly interceptions that have cost his team dearly. Let's list a few of them so you can get a better idea of where I am coming from and why I would take Brady or Montana over him, in a big game. Year: 2000-2001. Round: 2nd/divisional. Game: Packers @ Rams. Comment: He had SIX interceptions and played terribly. He Never gave his team a chance. Year 2002-2003. Round 1st/wildcard. Game: Falcons @ Packers. Comment: Another multiple turnover game (2 picks and 1 fumble). He played horribly and the heavily favored Packers were blown out at home against Vick and the Falcons. (Vick totally outplayed him) Year: 2003-2004. Round: 2nd/Divisional. Game: Packers @ Eagles. Comment: He had 3 terrible interceptions, including the one that lost the game for the packers, a floater that was picked by brian Dawkins and set up the winning FG for philly in overtime. Year: 2004-2005. Round: 1st/wildcard. Game: Vikings @ Packers. Comment: He threw FOUR interceptions and was awful in the game. Never gave the Packers a chance. They were heavily favored and lost by 14. Year: 2007-2008. Round: NFC championship game. Game: Giants at Packers. Comment: He threw 2 interceptions and played very poorly in the game. He was totally outplayed in freezing temperatures (supposedly his element) by Eli Manning and he threw the Game clinching interception to Corey Webster of the Giants, in overtime, to set up the game winning FG. These are some of his really poor postseason performances, in which, his interceptions were one of, if not, the KEY factor in his team's losses.
Oh, I completely agree with you. Anyone who thinks that Pennington is even in the same league as Favre is clueless. (I posted this the other day) Favre is, without question, one of the greatest quarterbacks of all-time. I'm just saying he's not number 1. I also think he almost HAS to be in the top 5 on any serious football fan's list. (I think I would put him 3rd behind Montana and Brady right now - I also think Manning will probably be ahead of him by the time he retires)
Are you being serious??? Do us all a favor and name 5 quarterbacks, in their prime, who you would choose to start a season with over Favre in his prime (you know, back when he was the MVP three times in a row).
Despite his picks it is very hard not to rate Favre as the greatest QB of all time, besides owning all of the records he also owns that iron man moniker as someone previously pointed out. The only other athletes to have that are Ripkin and Gehrig and Gehrig is considered one of the best at his sport too because of it. To play an entire career without missing a game in football will never happen again.
Yeah, I hear you and I have a tremendous amount of respect for Favres's consecutive games started streak - it's just incredible. However, to me, the greatest quarterback of all-time is the guy you would pick to start one game if your life depended on your team winning the game. To me, due to his tendency to throw game changing interceptions in critical situations, you just can't take Favre number 1. Again, he is certainly an all-time great quarterback and I would probably place him 3rd on my list of all-time great quarterbacks behind Montana and Brady. I have to admit that it's really close though, and, in point of fact, he had/has more PHYSICAL talent either one of those guys did/does.
Where am I bashing? I see you struggle w/ reading comprehension. Favre had teams good enough to win multiple Championships, marino never had a team good enouhg to win a single Championship. I have credibilit b/c I know what I am talking about. When did I ever call Chad great? Favre has been a mostly medicore QB this decade. He had big years in '01 and last year but he threw over 15 INTs EVERY year of this decade(except this year but he only has 3 to go and that could be by halftime Sunday), he's thrown over 20 INts twice including TWENTY NINE one year, he's led GB to a 3-5 record in postseason including THREE home playoff losses so that's 3 playoff games they were favored in that he led them to losses in. He's been mediocre, in that '02 meetng against Chad and the Jets in '02 when GB was fighting for homefield he led GB to 10 PTs while Chad had a 35-10 lead whent he Jets called off the dogs in the 4th. Favre's overall career is great but he's been mostly mediocre for most of this decade.
I'm not sure that QB for 1 game if my life depended on it is a valid way to pick an all time best at anything. If Brady doesn't come back from that knee or has a few bad years he will never be considered in that list even though he won 3 SBs. How many did Bradshaw win, 4? Do you ever hear his name? It's all about durability, longevity and consistency.
Here's a suggestion: if you really want to compare for "all time's" sake (not right now) Brady and Favre, why don't you compare apples to apples and compare the 8 year career of Brady (200-2007) to the first eight years Favre started (92-99). Then, 10 years from now, compare them again, for however many more years Brady plays. Then, and only then, get back to me. Regarding what you jsut wrote below: I don't understand how anyone can seriously make a case about how good Favre is or is not with an analysis that completely ignores his 3 consecutive MVP years. WTF is the point of that? Why don't you just look only at his passes that weren't completions, while you are at it? I bet then his compeltion percentage will be really bad!!! :rofl: Hey, I bet Brady is a lot better than Johnny Unitas too. You know, him being dead and all right now ... makes it tough to sling the rock very far.
Just curious how you know this, have you watched all the Packer games this decade? Some of us that actually have think some of those teams, starting with Ray Rhodes and ending with Mike Sherman were pretty bad. Maybe some of us that actually watched all the games think Favre was a big reason they won at all. He sure was mediocre last year. Didn't he get an MVP vote, guess you didn't watch that either.
Adam Vinatieri? A few lucky breaks here and there and then boom, no SBs for Brady. Man, I hate that he has had such a good O-Line because he is getting such a ridiculous amount of credit. No O-Line, or a D-Line that can mess with him, he looks a lot like the 6th rounder he was supposed to be. What was that like the 60th time he's been sacked his entire career when he went down with that ACL? So why do you like Brady? Is it because he gets a "bad wrap" around here like Chad and Herm? But keep belittling other people's knowledge of football, that is truly mature for such an experienced football officiando.
Whether you like him or not, Brady is a tremendous big game quarterback. And yeah, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, because I definately think the guy you call "the best quarterback of all-time" should be the one who you take if you have to win one game. And my only point was, that guy can't be Favre based on his tendency to throw game changing interceptions in critical situations. But I totally agree that durability, longevity, and consistency are all huge, and Favre has all of them.
First of all, apparently you haven't read all of my posts in this thread. I have already fully acknowdedged BOTH that Favre is an all-time great quarterback (I would rate him 3rd) AND that he won THREE straight MVP awards. Secondly, some of your assertions do severe damage to the cherished principles of logic. Tom Brady has EASILY played long enough for us to be able to compare him to other all-time great quarterbacks. Right now Tom Brady is in the prime of his career and I have been comparing hiim to Favre in his prime. (When he won the three straight MVPs that I have now acknowledged three different times in this thread and twice in this post alone. Do you want me to mention it again later for you? You won't have a panic attack if i forget, will you?) Also, I'm not sure exactly how it is that you think what I wrote before is, in any way, analogous to me analyzing the completion percentage of a QB's incomplete passes . . . If you happen to know, I'd love for you to explain it to me. The only point I have made (one which you did not come close to refuting at any point in any of your posts) is that Favre has been extremely mistake prone in critical situations of big games. He has an alarming tendency to throw careless, GAME-CHANGING interceptions in critical situations, in both regular season and playoff games. I cited 6 playoff games above where his careless interceptions cost his team dearly. I challenge you to find half of that number for Tom Brady. Find 3 playoff games where he made 3 or more careless mistakes that helped contribute to his team losing. I'll help you out. Brady had a really bad game where he threw 3 or 4 picks in the 2nd round/Divisional round - in denver - in 05/06. He also threw three interceptions in the AFC Championship game last year against the Chargers. (I'l give you a hint, those are the only two you will find) Keep in mind, that I only chose 6 of those playoff games for Favre, but trust me, there are more from his earlier years. (He had a few bad ones against Dallas in 93/94/95) Btw, Favre won three Straight MVPs. He is the only player to have done so in the history of the NFL (happy now?).
