Agreed. Shaub is a solid QB; I was just tampering down the automatic playoffs talk. Knowing what will be available Shaub would be a good option though I still think Sanchez at a reduced rate would be better. Given a veteran QB is a schematic fit to the WC style of offense, I expect MM will be able to yield a good CMP% and TD/INT ratio out of said QB. Heck he made Vick look like a passing QB and managed to field a professional looking passing offense last year with a QB that seemingly couldn't take a snap from center and CFL WRs. Basically, under MM Sanchez could easily provide the same efficiency that Shaub has shown with a little more playmaking ability. That year they had a choice of drafting one of the QBs listed below or trade for Shaub. I think they made the right choice. JaMarcus Russell Brady Quinn Kevin Kolb John Beck Drew Stanton Trent Edwards Jeff Rowe Troy Smith Jordan Palmer Tyler Thigpen
Not sure that 5 million is Shaub high water mark. Also, I think anybody we bring in will get a chance to compete for the starting job. The QB position on this team is far from settled. We should be on market for a QB.
That shows they know how to pick talent. Your right, they did make the right choice. Schaub was a third round pick coming out of college. He was traded for 2 second round picks in 2007 and 2008. The Texans thought very highly of him, and Atlanta wasn't just willing to give him up for nothing. Your not giving the guy enough credit. He's limited physically but he has proven to be an above average QB.
One, Schaub isn't gonna sign with a team to be a backup again. At a minimum he's gonna want a chance to start. Second, it's too soon to give up on Geno, and by signing Schaub, that's what the Jets would be doing. Three, most likely they'd have to trade a couple of draft picks to Houston for Schaub. Four, Schaub isn't gonna be cheap. Five and finally, he sucks. He gets rattled too easily and chokes. I wouldn't want him if Houston gave him to us and he signed for the vet minimum. I'd rather have Shaun Hill, Josh McCown or Derek Anderson. Geno doesn't need anyone to push him. That idea is idiotic imo. QBs don't need anyone to push them. They either have it or they don't. Pushing and competition are meaningless at the QB position.
It wasn't nothing; they traded him for 2 2nd rounders. Vick was the face of the franchise then; 2 2nd rounders for the back-up QB was an offer ATL could not refuse. At the end of the day Houston got some bench fantasy QB #s and 1 playoff appearance in 7 years out of it. I'd take erratic QB play and 2 AFCCG in 4 years over that any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
Man the people that support Geno seem to have some very low opinions on his ability. You basically conceded that Geno would be beaten out by a guy who sucks and is easily rattled. Lastly, though your "QBs don't need anyone to push them" may sound good in theory, in practice only QBs drafted high or who have established themselves do not get competition.
Why are they fantasy numbers? The numbers are numbers. You can't just discredit them as fantasy numbers because you like Mark more and his numbers don't add up. I'd never judge a QB based soley on basic stats but Schaub's been a good performer. Playoffs aren't just based on the play of the QB. I have no doubt we would go to the playoffs in 09 and 10 with Schaub, probably 08 and 2011 as well. In 88 career starts as a full time starter Schaub is 46-42. In 62 career starts Mark is 33-29 and in one of those starts he didn't attempt a single pass. Schaub was 6-5 in 2008 before he got hurt, went 9-7 in 2009 which is basically what Mark did (he went 8-7), went 7-3 in 2011 before he got hurt, and went 12-4 in 2012. The guy isn't as bad as you think he is.
So in your theory what kind of qb would we have as a backup, since in your mind, Geno is the definite starter? You put a veteran qb like Schaub behind him and you say no, you'll hinder his success. You put a rookie qb behind him, but no, you'll hinder his success. What do you do? I've never heard of a sport where your starting spot is 100% guaranteed no matter how you play. Every position needs that fire of battle to get the best out of the starter, knowing if they fail, the guy behind them will take the job. That's how team sports are done and that's how starters are made. No one gets the starting job no matter what, especially a qb coming off a role coaster rookie year. If signing Schaub makes Geno think he lost his job, then good. Let him battle it out and fight for it and let the best man win. Idzik constantly said he will have competition across the board, this would be exactly that. A veteran competent qb that could either beat him out or bring out the best in Geno and serve as a great mentor behind him.
He had one bad year last year, but besides that, he's been one of the best qb's in the league from 2006. He even led the league in passing in 2009. I genuinely believe Schaub gets no credit for the qb he is because he's ugly
They are fantasy numbers because when I see Shaub play I see him more as executor of good play calls than a playmaker. I don't believe that's discrediting his numbers. They both earned their numbers good or bad based on their individual circumstances. In all fairness I think both Shaub and Sanchez are system guys. If I was the GM deciding between them, I would take Shaub over Sanchez only if I was basing it solely statistical production. When it comes to the "fantasy" numbers; it's no contest. But I would consider skill, talent, playmaking ability, age, familiarity with playbook/coaches/players and schematic fit. I'd give the edge to Sanchez on all of those. Also, I disagree with the bold because it assumes the Kubiac coached Shaub would be the same player as the Shittyheimer coached Shaub. I attribute A LOT of Shaub's success to Kubiac and his offense. The guy may not be the best HC but he is one of the best OCs around. Vick under MM was a completely different QB, then Vick under prior and subsequent coaches. Since I don't think he is bad, not sure what you want me to say.
Explore all options. I wouldn't mind him being brought him. Trying to figure out how high of a pick I'd be okay with trading. He's coming off a terrible year so the Jets would be buying really low, but he had 4-5 season of average to above average play before last year.
Then I can say any QB just has fantasy numbers. I could make that statement about anyone. Schaub executes good play calls. That's a good thing. Luckily for us we have a good offensive coordinator. You can't just throw Mark's performance at the feet of Schottenheimer. Mark has to take the large part of the blame for that. He's had his chance here and hasn't been very good. Why not bring in a guy whose had success on another team and might just need a change of scenery. Mark hasn't produced like Schaub has. So the categories Schaub is better then Mark at (TD's, less INT's, yards, completion %, QBR, passer rating) all things that most GM's would use to evaluate the play of a QB, are all "fantasy stats" and therefore get discarded? But the categories you consider "skill, talent, playmaking ability, and schematic fit" are the ones that count. If Mark had more skill, talent, and playmaking ability then Schaub does wouldn't he have had better numbers? I mean most QB's generally do. Just saying. What's Mark ever done to prove he is a playmaker? I just don't get why we use terms like "playmaker" to define the guy and then throw away the performance of another guy like Schaub and just call his performance and quality play over a fairly decent length of time all "fantasy numbers". If he comes here next season and puts up those "fantasy numbers" like he did in 2012 i'll bet you the Jets are in the playoffs. Mark's been a poor schematic fit since he's been here. That's why the Jets are trying to replace him. Guys like Rodgers, Peyton, Brady, Brees are all considered some of the best QB's in the league. They have great "fantasy numbers" as well. Why do their's count but Schaub's don't? Simply because the Texans haven't made the playoffs as much as those teams?
Excellent, excellent, excellent response. It's quite apparent that people on here and everywhere really, like to mold whatever it is they are speaking about into what fits their stance best. Numbers mean shit when your mind is made up that Sanchez is just as good as Schaubl, but numbers means everything when taking everything else into account. I can understand people when they say numbers don't tell all, but they sure as hell tell a lot. At the qb position they tell you everything he is doing. To have freak numbers one or two games a year can be understood as iffy, but the same solid numbers year after year? Does that not show his skill set? Or is that just a matter of the system? I guess the system is throwing the ball every snap.
Let's take your premise to ignore everything but the QB and wins and losses. Let's go forward with that thinking. First off, Houston has made the playoffs 2 times in the last 7 years and 2 times in the last 3 years, not 1. They also won a division title, something the Jets haven't done with Sanchez or haven't done since 2002. Second, why aren't you including the year Sanchez got hurt, but including years Schaub got hurt? That seems misleading. Since you did include the year Schaub did get hurt, how come you didn't credit him for going 7-3 and putting his team in position to win the division and make the playoffs? You didn't really evaluate him consistently or fairly. Oh and what does bench fantasy QB mean? Is that supposed to mean anything? You realize anyone can be picked up to fill in for a week when your starting QB has a bye week, so every non starting QB in a fantasy league is a bench QB and depending on bye weeks, match ups, and/or injuries they might get a start.
This is bothering me that people think he sucks or are saying Sanchez is just as good or better. I needed to look further into this. Here's what I found: One of the biggest things QBs are rated on is their accuracy. The only way to be an excellent QB in the NFL is with accuracy. We all know this. If you look at Schaub, 4 years in a row, he was in the top 10 in completion percentage of the NFL. From 2007-2009, he was top 5, all with a completion percentage over 66. Over the past 4 years, he was in the top 10 for completions over 20 yards and also over 40 yards. He's not just throwing screens and out routes. He's accurately hitting receivers further than 20 yards. Let's move over to QB rating. In 2010, he finished the year with a 92.0 rating, higher than both Peyton Manning and Drew Brees. In 2009, he finished with a 96.2 rating, higher that year than Tom Brady and in 2008, he finished with a 92.7 rating ranking him 7th in the league, behind Aaron Rodgers. Need I continue?
Agreed. You can't discredit consistently good QB play over the period of time Schaub has produced it. He's considered a good QB by any type of metrics you want to use to judge him (minus last year). QBR, passer rating, PFF, whatever. People can't just throw all that stuff out the window and act like it doesn't matter. Cause it does.
