All of this discussion about Tebow starting is sort of moot -- the only way he starts (barring injury) is an epic losing streak, which is unthinkable. It will be bad for everyone. Bad for Jets, bad for Sanchez, bad for Tebow. Tebow won't come out smelling like a rose if there's a losing streak -- failure and losing breeds failure and losing. The real question, in my mind, is whether the Jets are indeed working on a backup plan if they don't feel like paying Sanchez max-money to stay after this year or the next.
You could look at that as an anomaly. Not saying it is.. but failure breeds failure, which is why the Tebowmania in Denver was so epic. That was a shitty team that managed to win a bunch of games it had no business winning.
i want to say something offensive to you, but im afraid LTJF might ban me this time around so i'll say this. i disagree with you and your username. good day sir.
That is the point, and it is an anomaly. It's not a good situation for anyone involved if there has to be a quarterback change. The next time Tebow gets a chance to start, it needs to be with a full cycle of OTA's, and offense installed with him in mind, and him getting the majority of the reps all through camp and the preseason. He's never had that, and one more season of mid-season replacement won't be a good thing for him. And by definition, it would mean the wheels fell off of the Jets season. Ugh.
I agree; I'm just saying that an unconventional (some would say anemic ground-and-pound) offense is less determined by moving the chains than, say, the Pats/Saints-style offense. Not to say that first downs aren't still an important metric.
See: Post # 138. When the contracts are monetarily different and the team's cap situations are different, the comparison is not analogous. a) Tirade? I went off on a tangent to address their preseason stats... I've learned over time that talking football in an online forum requires just as many pre-futations as it does refutations. Now for your points: 1) is true, but to say I contradicted you there is specious (at best): If I thought they mattered I would not have given the disclaimer. 2) is true. He loses his job if the Jets are out of the playoff race and it's become apparent that he's not the future, which may not necessarily be based on logic/fairness. Note that's applicable because of today's developments: Given that it took the Jets almost a year (from the beginning of last season until around today) to realize that Wayne Hunter isn't worth starting at RT, I doubt that the Jets will have any anti-Sanchez epiphany. 3) Half-true. It's Sanchez's to lose, but I'd go further: Tebow simultaneously can't earn it and needs to show promise in order to necessitate a move. Given our salary cap situation and the fact that the Jets want to compete every year, we have no incentive to play Tebow over Sanchez unless he gives us a significantly better chance of winning. Keep in mind that this "switch" cannot be undone so there's more precautionary concern coming from the Jets' side. What...? You can't be talking about your first post (one sentence long), so let's look at your second post (I replace everything that I can't directly respond to with "FILLER"; Bold text is what I responded to): I didn't take anything out of context and I didn't fail to address anything; I don't know what you're talking about unless the Tebow Goggles comment threw you off. Unless "Tebow doesn't necessarily have to earn the QB1 job" is the crux of your argument, I didn't really mince your words or ignore any of your points. Further, my failure to explicitly agree with "even though [the Preseason] doesn't really matter" makes no difference. Opinions aren't organized/presented chronologically on internet forums, thus you can have no ownership of an opinion. We can both think the preseason doesn't count (as I previously implied in Post # 135) and it means we agree with one another; to say "you are agreeing with me since I said it first" turns this forum into a pissing contest of who gets their post in first. We're sharing/discussing opinions/ideas, not fighting for the right to run an argument. We're also under no obligation to take different positions (which you seemed to imply there). Your "pattern" argument is really weak; the pattern that's been established thus far is that the Jets offense is anemic regardless of the QB behind center (so why not relegate the role to the salary cap burden?). They're both struggling. IMO, Tebowites have yet to realize that without Tebow shining under center Sanchez has to really, really suck to lose the job (and repeating his atrocious 2011 stats would ensure he keeps the starting job).
Everyone knows that. Tell us why that means he'll do it again this year. Vince Young's past success failed to lead to future success. Same applies here.
Last couple=2 or more years. If an AFC Championship Game (and having your QB carry your defense into and through that game) constitutes "down the drain" then you're not a real Jets fan.
I am much too lazy to go point for point on your reply. With respect to Kolb's vs Sanchez's contracts, I am making a generalization that the signing of a large contract does not make one immune from losing their starting job. If you want to argue the details, give me a few months and I'll actually read the details of the contracts and each team's cap room and I'll get back to you... maybe. Concerning my use of the word "tirade". I tend to use words which exaggerate someone's actions or beliefs because it makes them look bad and makes me feel better about myself (I have low self-esteem). You did however execute a mini-tirade while going off on your tangent. Additionally, I did not say that Tebow out-performed Sanchez. You assumed I did, while also kindly suggesting that I remove my Tebow goggles. Very Kantian... you get extra points for that because I sure do likes me some philosophizing. But you assumed wrong. *Insert sad face here* On pre-season counting: Obviously, I was kidding about who said what first. But, I said that I said it first before you said that you said it first. As it relates to our particular dialogue in this thread, I was confused as to why you were arguing with me that pre-season does not necessarily mean anything when I already stated that. Perhaps "pattern" is a bit of a strong word and I should watch my language around the kids. Let me downgrade "pattern" to "trend". But wait, which one has less emphasis? Pattern or trend? Screw it, I'm a rebel and a risk-taker... If the "trend" continues of Sanchez struggling, it will open the door for Tebow, deserved or undeserved. Yes, the crux of my argument is that Tebow does not necessarily have to earn the starting job by his play on the field due to Tebowmania. Do not read any of the above paragraphs I wrote.
Come on don't you know Sanchez got carried to the playoffs but when the Jets didn't make the playoffs it is all his fault?!?!!! People like to ignore Sanchez's play in the 2010-2011 season and just think he did nothing. Went into Pitt and won playing well in the regular season. He also had the Houston game. Oh and the Cleveland game. And the Detroit game. The Denver game. The Bears game in a loss. The Pats game x2. But nope he had nothing to do with the Jets success in 2010-2011. Oh he also put up 3 TDs in a Foxboro win including a picture perfect pass to Tone in the back corner. Yeah Sanchez held the team back ha. *This rant isn't directed at Tebow fans, but fans in general who think Sanchez was carried in his 2010-2011 year. He was an integral part of the success the team had just like he was a part, but not the main part, of the failure (aka mediocrity) they had last year.
1) I understand you're speaking in general terms and that's the flaw of your Kolb/Sanchez comparison. If Kolb is cut before March 2013 the Cardinals only have $6.67 million in dead money (compare that to Sanchez's $17.15 million in dead money if he's cut before March 2013). While cutting Kolb could open up cap space for Arizona cutting Sanchez after this year would actually increase his salary cap hit (dead money exceeds his cap number by $4.3 million). Kolb's an inconvenience, not a handcuff. And that's without mentioning Arizona's ability to absorb dead money better than the Jets and the differences between the two teams' cultures. 2) I didn't assume; I was providing stats so that some random Tebowite didn't come in and say "you aren't being specific enough!" or whatever. 3) I sometimes write unclearly; my bad. 4) My point is that whether any pattern or trend exists, I think we're going to see a radically different Jets offense in the regular season (unless we're fixing to finish last in the AFCE), so any "trend" we've seen thus far is irrelevant. Though I disagree with the assertion that Sanchez has played badly enough and Tebow has played well enough at this point to develop a "trend" towards Tebow climbing up the depth chart. 5) I see what you're saying by 'Tebowmania' now (fans and media pressure calling for him to start like what happened in Denver). I agree that's realistic although I think it's highly improbable.
Just throwing this out there Fact: Sanchez played better in the playoffs than he did in the regular season during the 2009 and 2010 seasons. Fact: Sanchez (not the Defense) beat the Patriots on January 16th 2011.
The poster who started this thread should watch more than 10 second espn highlights of prior Tebow starts. Even in his "wins" he is all but unwatchable and is often boooed off the field after missing wide open receivers on third and manageable downs. I can't wait until school starts again so posters like this can be doing their social studies homework instead of posting rubbish.
Your vocab is mixed up. That post you quoted was not fixed. Ehh while I agree on the first fact the second fact is a little stretch that I mostly agree on. The defense played great in Foxboro but Sanchez played really well too. Shaun Ellis had a career game. The front 3/4 was getting pressure like nothing and Brady look rattled because surprise surprise no QB likes pressure and getting hit immediately after a snap. Also I hope you realize the part you quoted was sarcastic. If not I need to be more clear.
Don't forget Sanchez has the 6th highest ever lifetime post season QB rating Post Season Rank Quarterback Rating 1 Aaron Rodgers 105.5 2 Bart Starr 104.8 3 Drew Brees 103.9 4 Kurt Warner 102.8 5 Joe Montana 95.6 6 Mark Sanchez 94.3 but you can have Joe Montana in his prime behind that O-line and the Jets still would go no where.......Jets have much bigger issues than Sanchez versus Tebow.
I did. My bad, should've clarified that I was using it as an excuse to bring up Sanchez's playoff creds. Vs the Pats he was clutch (3 TD's) and efficient (16 of 25; efficient also referring to his basically 5 completions per TD rate). Ellis and Harris kept the Jets in the game (even though Harris' facemask turned a 2nd and 17 into a 1st and 10). Mostly the game was concerning because the Jets' D got worse as the game went on (all of Ellis' sacks and Harris' INT were in the 1st Q). NE dropped 10 in the 4th (compared to 11 in the previous 3 Q's). We won the game because Sanchez opened the 4th with 2 passes to Cotch and and one to Holmes for a combined 72 yards and a TD. Edit: Calling Ellis' game a "career game" is a stretch. Sure he had 2 sacks, but unless he drew some penalties I'm unaware of or pressured the QB outside of his 2 sacks this game is nothing compared to his epic 2008 fumble recovery for a TD vs the Bills.
Another pro-Sanchez "point": it's very hard to lose your starting job when other players around you sucks significantly more than you do.
