Nice arguement, but I don't agree with all of it. I agree that we reached with a few pics, I honestly don't like the TE. But here is the thing. You are basing your arguments on the value given to these players, by guys like Kiper and organizations like Scouts, Inc. So based on their rankings you say the Jets did not get value. But the only rankings and board that mattered was the Jets. Their board might have looked MUCH different than the ones you were looking at, and their value for the players they drafted different. The Jets have the largest scouting department in the league, more tape and indepth reports on more players then practically every other team. Before the draft they worked out around 450 players. The Jets FO probably had those players graded out higher based on what they saw, the needs they felt they wanted to address, and the team they are trying to build. It is not like they picked a 6th rounder in the 1st. The Jets' board and grades in most likelihood looked much diffferent than the ones you are looking at. So in all fairness, how can you judge? You say they could have gotten SMith in the 6th, or the other players later. Based on what? The reports you were looking at? Every teams boards and grades are different. They don't uses Kiper's. What if they really wanted Smith, and targeted him after the workout. You say they could have waited. But what if Denver, or some other team, had him graded out where the Jets did? They would have lost out on the player they wanted. You can only grade the Jets on 1) how the players turn out in the long run, and 2) the value they got based on their draft board. Since none of us have seen their draft board, this point becomes moot. In 2 years time if none of these players pan out, they get fired, like any other FO. And your statement about Tanny having to go is a little ridiculous. It is his first year, he brought us out of salary cap hell; and what if some of these players you say they reached on turn out to be pro-bowlers? It wouldn't matter what round he got the players in. Like I said, it is a well thought out position and I respect it. BUT, I refuse to evaluate this draft based on someone else's arbitrary rating of the players. The only ratings and board that matters is the Jets'. How good of a job they did on the ratings and board can only be judged on the field and 2-3 years down the line when these players develop. Just something to think about.
Exactly what i was getting at man.....this is what we all are trying to say to you, buttle....your argument makes sense, but i just don't agree with it
Sorry about that I forgot that NFL GMs are infallable. I guess Tom Brady (6th rounder) isn't that good after all.
Let me explain something real quick.. Every team has their OWN draft board, they don't go off of Mel Kiper's board, or any other self proclaimed draft guru's board. This being said, each team also has a SCOUTING department, which look for intangibles the team is looking for (position, size, speed, character, playing ability, team NEEDS). Therefore, I think each team knows alittle more about the players they chose, and WHEN it's the right time to chose them then any of us EVER will. Additionally, teams in the NFL know what other teams are looking for, that's the reason they feel the need to move up. For example, Clemens would have been picked by the Vikings had we not moved into the 49 spot. Conseqeuntly, making that pick NOT a reach. So no matter who WE think might be the best available player for our team, they KNOW who is the best available player and fit for the team.
Buttle you are either a NFL personnel man or some Mel Kieper draft nut. As we all know teams value players differently.Judging a draft the day after is dangerous that's what the "experts" do and their wrong more often then not.As a whole I'm happy with the early picks and hopeful that some of the 2nd day picks will be keepers.
I'm going to do a rebuttle, one statement at a time Really? Then how come everybody was yelling for Leinart or trading up for Bush? I don't think you give the FO enough credit here. If the writers had their way, they would have drafted Leinart with the first pick and White with the second. Given all the pressure, these were not easy picks. 3rd or 4th? That was like a month ago. He's been rocketing up draft boards for the past month as people kept looking at his pre-injury tape. Some prognosticators (most notably, Peter King) had him going at the bottom of round 1. There was no way he was going to last another round. Word is that had he been healthy, this guy would have been talked about in the same breath as Cutler, Leinart or Young, say a mid-first round pick. By the second round, you're not going to get near-flawless guys like you can in the first. I'd say this is a nice, calculated gamble. As for the other QB's, they're a lot more raw and have a lot bigger risk than recovering from injury, IMO. A second round grade for this guy is reasonable. I believe the FO had him as a high second round pick, but they managed to get a future #2 on top of it. How is this not maximizing value? Again, many teams, including the Pats (read some reports out of Boston) had him targeted as a 3rd round pick. If we don't get him, the Pats take him with their 3rd round pick. Note that we dropped down 4 and picked up a 7th with this. That was about the max that we could have dropped and not let him slip away to a rival. True, we didn't get full value for dropping down, but if this is the guy we wanted all along, I don't see how picking up a 7th is a bad thing. Note that we couldn't trade this one since it's a compensatory pick. So we can't trade and drop down. He's a 3rd round grade by our staff in a position where we need some depth. You can't complain about this one unless you wanted someone else. Your original argument, however, was that you don't mind the actual picks, just the value. Well, if you can't trade and this is the best pick you can make, what's to complain about? I loved this pick. High, high potential. The guy can play RB, WR and QB. The FO has admitted that they don't know how they'll use him yet. Trick plays helped the steelers last year and this guy is going to be the trick play master. Are we really punting on 4th and 5? Having this guy line up in punt formation definitely makes things tricky. How about if he also holds for Nugent? Makes the opposing coaches think twice now, doesn't it? He's definitely not a possession WR and by all accounts, many other teams had him projected as a 3rd rounder. Value-wise, this is your weakest argument. In case you weren't paying attention last year, CMart and Blaylock were both injured. Some depth/insurance for a late 4th round pick isn't bad, considering most 4th round picks end up on the street in 3 years. Other teams had him as a 4th round pick. Again, I don't see where there's a lack of value. The guy also plays full back. He complements our other TEs in that he blocks much more than catches passes. Part of our failure in short yardage situations is because of a lack of guys like this. You could make an argument that this wasn't the best value, but he's a 5th round pick and at this point, you really do have to just plug holes. He seems to plug one and I don't see how this was such bad value. I don't think you can really talk value when you're talking 6th and 7th round picks. There's no guarantee they'd sign with you if you don't draft them. Haul coming out: 2 starters on the offensive line a QB that many felt was worth a high second 2nd round pick in 2007 very productive LB that others also had as a 3rd decent safety with a pick we couldn't trade trick play specialist/wr/rb/qb? depth at rb big time blocker at FB/TE 2 projects If you think they failed miserably, you're on crack. Honestly, I think you're swayed too much by what draftniks like Mel Kiper are saying instead of actual pro personnel men. Any of them could have told you that they liked Clemens more and more with each tape viewing. They also would have told you that Schlegel is a really good player. Heck, if he ran a 4.6, he'd be a top-10 pick. But of course, you're interested in the public perception of value rather than the actual NFL value. We had 2 reaches as far as I can tell. Our last 3rd round pick and our 5th round pick. All other picks, there were teams that wanted them that we made sure to pick in front of. The 3rd round pick, we couldn't trade, the second pick is a 5th rounder that fills a need. I'd say that's not a bad reach in either case. Actually, it's quite the opposite, pretty much every draft review site had the Jets rated pretty well. So again, argument invalid. I really don't see a good argument in there. If you want to argue that we didn't get the right players, fine. We didn't get a DE or a DT which I thought we needed and there's a decent argument to be made for that. But if you're arguing about value? They got great value AND they got the type of players they wanted (smart, tough, leaders). I don't see how you can say it's a bad draft.
Tannenbaum needs to go? Did you really post that Buttle? I reviewed the draft by round by pick - and the Jets might have picked guys you don't think equal the value - however, in review of who they passed up they didn't pass up many if ANY guys who can make any impact or who you wished you'd have gotten instead. Clemens is the hottest post-draft guy around. The rest of the players selected are smart, tough players in the Mangini mold, who will make the team, or make the team better. This draft was awesome!
You're nuts. The Jets had a very good draft. Rated A+ by MSNBC sports and #1 in the NFL by FOX Sports. Schlegel is a quality run stuffer, a tough, smart leader and a guy who AJ Hawk raves about. Eric Smith is mainly an ST pick, I think, but his stock was rising as the draft approached. We do need to address ST, its 30% of the game. Brad Smith, again an intelligent, motivated guy (team Captain) with multiple talents. Hes gonna be fun to watch. Washington is a good back and some people think he'll replace CMart in time. Pociask is going to be a crushing blocker and I can see CMart or Washington following him through the line for first downs and TDs. Last two fellas I don't know as much about.
