Quote: "...Why would I think that we'll have any more luck with Revis, Harris and Keller than we had with Moss and D-Rob? ..." Bradway Sucks, I believe you have a vested interest in expecting the NYJs to remain losers. I would like to take issue with your condemnation of DRob. In the first place, this player was drafted to play defensive tackle in a conventional 4-3 defense. Within two years, he was faced with a 180 degree transformation from a standard front approach to a 3-4 / 4-3 hybrid defensive strategy that continued to revise itself. For a guy who was picked with so much expectations (hardly his fault), DRob did everything in his power to excel in the contradictory assignments placed upon him. If you blame one regime or the other, you would be wrong. This is the luck of the draw. Since Woody Johnson isn't trying to manipulate from on high. Woody was forced to deal with Parcells, then for a few minutes of the perfidy of Belichick, and then with the recommended Groh, and then with the recommended Edwards, and finally with the Woody-selected Tannenbaum / Mangini. All of these management teams deserved their discretion. Yet you, Bradway Sucks, hold their discretion against the NYJs. You will never be satisfied if the NYJs happen to win, because you will not be able to identify the folks to credit, since everyone is to blame. Let go, and enjoy yourself. It may be that this regime has a good chance at success. Hopefully you will enjoy it if it happens.
SJ, they addressed quite a few glaring needs in Free Agency this year. I would not say they are off course, but maybe taking a bit of a short-cut to catch up with the herd. I'm as skeptical as the next guy on the TE pick, but we will have to see how it plays out first. We still have a few 2nd day picks to get some depth picks in.
I gotta tell you, I've seen a lot of years where the Jets drafted two hot shot defensive rookies, even ones that turned out to be really, really good, and the team went to hell in a handbasket anyway. 1988: Erik McMillan and James Hasty, future All-Stars both, but the QB position was in flux and the offensive line was weak and the Jets went to hell in a handbasket. 1989: Jeff Lageman and Dennis Byrd, both great players but Byrd broke his neck and Lageman got hurt mid-career and the Jets went to hell in a handbasket. 2000: Shaun Ellis and John Abraham, half the defensive line at once and it just didn't matter as we progressively collapsed in 2003, 2005 and 2007. You guys who are holding Revis and Harris up like a crucifix to ward off the vampires of Jets history just don't understand how unlikely they are to even matter in 3 seasons unless they get a hell of a lot of help in the interim. Our vampires grab crucifixes and swallow them and the players holding them. It's how the Jet's fate plays out over the years.
Sure. How could I not be happy?! They went out and spent money on free agents. But, you won't see me lining up to apologize any time soon, because figuring out the glaring needs of a 4-12 team isn't all that difficult. At that point, pretty much everything needs upgrading, so every move is an upgrade. I'm please with the way they've tried to correct things, but I'm just not prepared to call them geniuses for standing knee-deep in water and finally deciding that it's time to start plugging-up holes in the boat.
but you always say this collapse was from the OL woes, not those players (Ellis and Abraham) that were drafted. this time, we have the Defensive studs (Rhodes, Revis, Harris, Gholston, *Jenkins*), and the OL - on paper - looks to have been fixed.
I don't think they panicked at all. Look how many trades just in the first 2 rounds. Once you got out of the overspending slots (1-8). Everyone went nuts. Looks like everyone targeted a guy and went after him, starting with the Saints. Keller wasn't on our radar, but I like Tangini's record with targeted players. Let's be honest, none of us thought he would be in striking distance. This pick was clearly a shot across the Pats bow after watching them get eaten up by Dallas Clark in 06 and Kevin Boss in the SB.
But that's the thing - I'll watch how it plays out. I always do. Some years I've been happier to do it. I get less patient with the cycle of waiting as I get older. But, there's one constant - I'll still be here watching and waiting. I'm not displeased with today's picks. Nor am I displeased with this offseason. I'm just not going to sit quietly through next December and then get pissed. I've turned that whole process on its head. Now, I'll START skeptical and the worst that can happen is that I'm proved wrong.
I agree. Neither am I, and that is not what I meant. Their first year here was a success, and then they took a step back overrating the talent. But they were smart and humble enough to see the error of their ways and try to correct it this year. Unlike many regimes on many teams that stand pat, never admitting their mistakes, thereby driving their franchises into the ground. That impresses me, they are willing to grow and learn. To do things differently if they have to. That can only lead to long term success. It makes me like these guys as people but as management as well. It shows me they are going to keep getting better. Whether they are geniuses or not, well I don't know.
Yeah, I can hardly fault you for that. :smile: I'm generally an optimist most of the time and even I have a little trouble doing that after a while. I find some comfort looking at the whole picture though because we should have advanced our cause this offseason. Of course I felt that way with last years draft after a 10-6 season. Even the best laid plans can go to hell though.
The offensive line woes were directly related to the Jets trading up twice in 2001 and 2003 and NOT making approriate investments on the line in the interim. They took D-Rob instead of two 1sts and a 4th (jesus it was a 4th round pick) They took Santana Moss instead of a 1st, a 4th and a 6th. They invested nothing higher than a 3rd round pick on an offensive lineman between 2001 and 2003 and in 2005 the line collapsed. Not only did the two defensive stars they drafted in 2000 get negated by the lack of support, the two players they traded up for turned out to be significantly worse than the sum of the picks that acquired them. Revis and Harris are probably very good players. So were the guys I listed in the last post and Aaron Glenn and Mo Lewis and Marvin Jones, and in the end it just didn't matter because they wound up playing for Jets teams with clueless management. If you want to look at the acquisition of Revis and Harris at all costs last year as a victory condition feel free too. I look at 4-12 as a losing proposition and I don't credit anything that happened during that mess as a positive development. If the Jets turn it around I'l turn it around too, but I don't have that expectation at this point. I think we're going to have a pro bowl CB and maybe LB playing for bad Jets teams for the forseeable future. James Hasty, Aaron Glenn, Darrelle Revis. Jeff Lageman, Mo Lewis, David Harris.
4-12 was inconsequential. We weren't beating the Pats last year. This team we have right now, with picks to go, is at least nasty on paper. We get good QB play and stay healthy we can hang with anyone in the AFC.
I'm not saying that you can't get good players in the 4th round. I love Leon and Rhodes. I'm saying that picks in round 4-7 are meant to be dealt and swapped. They just aren't very valuable. Who's to say that Leon would have even been drafted if we didn't take him in the 4th? My point is that a lot of people on this board are freaking out about the loss of a 4th. It's great when you can get a flier like Rhodes or Leon in the 4th and he winds up being really good. But if you are depending on a 4th rounder to contribute, you are in big trouble. That's not to say the Jets aren't in big trouble . . . :wink: But you get my point.
Regardless of the Jets drafting those talented defensive players like Hasty, Glenn, Lageman, Lewis, etc., they hadn't made a commitment to improving the offensive line, which was the main reason for their failure as a team. This regime has spent two first round picks on a tackle and center, and has handed out the biggest OL contract in NFL history to a guard. They also spent rather handsomely on another piece. They are certainly committed to improving the OL. In the past, the Jets added those pieces and hoped they would be enough. This time, they're adding top notch players like Harris and Revis (and hopefully Gholston and Keller) and are also filling other holes through other means.
4-12 is never inconsequential. If you think it is then go find a few 4-12 teams that won super bowls in the next few seasons.
The pain was all in my head? Problem is, these are 12-month cycles. If all of this didn't do it, we won't know until 2009. Then, if we find out it wasn't enough, we won't get to figure out how to fix that until 2010. I'd like us to figure out this whole thing out before I'm so old I'll look down to see my nuts clanking around my ankles and Meadowlands ver. 3.0 in development.
I really don't understand people that say Santana Moss was a bad pick. Just because we traded him he is a bad pick now? The dumb move was letting Coles walk the first time.
