OK, thanks for explaining. Sorry, but I can't see a 4-team trade happening in any under circumstance, let alone with the Jets getting all those picks.
He can start on day one, but he's going to struggle mightily in his rookie season.. I think Winston is going to be a really good Quarterback, but I expect him to throw 20+ interceptions in year one... I'd rather see Winston develop his footwork /decision making on the bench.
Good question. Like Legler says, I think the Jets would have to give Cleveland something back in that trade unless they really, really wanted Cooper. I would do it I think if I thought I'd still have an excellent chance of getting DeVante Parker, an excellent OT or OLB prospect or perhaps the FS from Mississippi whose name escapes me at the moment.
I think it will take less games than you think but you have NO idea how "decent" Winston can be week 1 or week 16. No idea. Who said he was 4th on the depth chart? Who said how many reps he's going to get? He's 4th on the playing chart week 1 but if it's a blow out, he can play snaps at the end of the game that very first week. Or not. You posited that if the starter got hurt you'd have to press Mariota into play immediately. That's not what I said. If Matt Moore goes down on the first snap and Geno goes down on the 2nd snap I want a 3rd QB there just in case. Mariota is being groomed to take over soon. Not week 1. You're myopic and your only concern is how quickly a QB can get on the field--not how great they could be once they take the field for good. Go draft a shitty QB from some big school that happens to run a pro set offense. There's your starter week 1. _
He knows how to run a pro-style offense - strictly as a football player not the off the field issues. Sure maybe they don't throw Winston out there and instead they go with McCown. I think the probability of Winston having a good game WK1 compared to Mariota is far higher. You can't run the Oregon offense at the NFL level - doesn't adapt to the speed of the defense. That's why I really want a veteran acquired via FA. Sam Bradford, Jay Cutler or Matt Moore. I would rather skip the QBs all together in this draft (esp if Winston isn't OTC). A lot of good players in this draft.
Blasphemy. You can't take Mariota because he can't play week 1 but you can take Winston and stick him out there week 1 and watch him throw 20 picks. _
IMO Matt Moore would give veteran insurance. In all likelihood (imo), he would beat out Geno. For one thing, he's more consistent and will turn the ball over less than Geno. While it's possible that Mariota could fool most of us and win the starting job outright in TC, it's unlikely. I don't think it would be in his or the team's best interest to start him day one, however. That's putting a lot of pressure on him. I think he will need a year to learn the offense, work on his footwork, getting used to the speed of the NFL, learning to read NFL defenses, etc. in a pressure-free situation. If he learns and develops and shows that he is ready to start by mid-season and Moore and/or Geno are struggling, fine, but I think that he would benefit, and thus the team would benefit by allowing him to sit for a season. This would be even more true if the OL hasn't been significantly upgraded. You don't want to risk his getting injured or worrying too much about his protection. Since this is a rebuilding year, the W-L record isn't the primary important factor, but rather developing young players, and especially Mariota if we're fortunate enough to have him on the team.
All I am saying is Winston is more pro ready. He's got a head start in regards to being a good NFL QB. That margin is pretty far. Mariota has a LONG road ahead. I ain't trying to knock your boy - it's just how I see it. You need to have a plan for that QB - you said you want to get this QB, get that QB but at the end of the day those QBs need reps. There's only 2 QBs I would consider getting and that's Winston and Mariota. I'm 100% down to wait until next draft for a QB. Wherever you consider them shitty or not that's something you need to deal w/.
Which is the MOST irrelevant factor ever imagined in determining whether to draft a QB. Whether you're right or wrong--and you have no idea-- who gives a shit? Mind boggling. _
2015 doesn't matter. I get that you'd rather wait till next year to draft an inferior talent because he's more "pro ready". That to me makes little sense. _
All rookie QBs struggle. I think Winston is more equipped to battle those struggles and come up on top. It would be nice to sit the young QB, but this is the new NFL - these QBs don't sit for very long.
Welp every year matters to me. I mean if we draft Mariota - don't even bother watching a Jet game then in 2015 w/ this mindset - everything will be peachy green in 2016 because Mariota is going to show up in a Golden glow and lead us to the SB.
Winston has the definite advantage of having played in an NFL-type offense. Whether he has the poise and maturity to handle the pressure is another question entirely. In terms of Mariota, that's why the team adds a veteran QB. Mariota would be the #3 QB in that situation. The camp competition would be between Geno and the vet FA the Jets bring in. If the starter is injured, then the backup would play and Mariota would continue to hold the clipboard. If the starter was going to be injured for any length of time, the Jets would probably need to sign a FA off the street to be the backup. IMO you'd still want to protect Mariota in that scenario unless he clearly showed that he was ready to play. A "decent" game one. Is that what you're looking for? What if that game caused Winston to start having doubts in his ability? What if he took a pounding because the OL didn't do a good job of protecting him and he was injured or started thinking too much about the OL's ability to protect him? I'm not trying to be a smart ass, just curious what your thoughts are and how you'd handle it.
Every year matters and I've attended every home game since 2000 and watched every other game for decades and I'm not going to stop attending or watching now. But I'm not naive to think we're going to be anything better than an 8-8 team and certainly not a championship contender. 2015 does not matter. _
I think 2015 will be interesting, whether Mariota is on the roster or not, because of the new CS, FAs the team will sign and the new players they will add via the draft.
You have to start somewhere, hopefully 2015 is the year to get us rolling - every season is important. 2015 does matter. I'm just arguing with Stokes on the fact that Mariota isn't as good as he believes. He's pretending he's a savior at the QB position in which I 100% disagree on - if we don't get Mariota, it's not the end of the world. I have no issues drafting him if the Jets believe in him and have a plan. One decent game wasn't what I was looking for - it's just me saying one has a shorter and higher probability of being a good NFL QB then the other.
I'm very excited about this year, new regime new scouting dept, there is a lot to be excited about I agree for sure. We may not win this yr, but this is the beginning of a journey that could end w/ us being on top.
You're myopic, you care about a rookie QB playing decent the first week of 2015. I'm thinking long term. I want my WB to play GREAT for a decade. Not 2015. Certainly not week 1. How is that a "fact"? Because it's your opinion? Do you know how stupid that sounds? Your opinions don't become facts just like my opinions don't become facts. We're both just guessing. _
That is why the initial trade was more conservative. I made sure that the Browns and Rams each came out of the draft with an upgrade at QB and the guy they wanted at the top of round one.
What really sickens me about so called knowledgeable fans that make statements that we are 'tons of talent away from making the super bowl' is that it can be no further than the fact or truth. The Colts got as far as the AFC championship with far less as much talent as the Jets ( and I am not the only one that opines on this, for sure) - all you need is an Andrew Luck. Plain and simple .... put a player behind the center to make right reads and calls and sit back and watch this team make it to the playoffs.
