If the Texans have given up on the pursuit of Romo and are absolutely desperate for a QB, according to the draft trade value chart the Texans would have to give the Jets the following to move up to 6: 25 (1), 57 (2), 89 (3), 169 (5), 2018 1st, 2018 2nd We can dream right? Sent from my KIW-L24 using Tapatalk
I'm much higher on Adams than anybody else that is likely to be available at 6. At the same time, I love the talent that is going to be available between the bottom of the 1st and the top of the 3rd. If the jets can pick up extra picks in that range, I'm all about trading down from #6. I'd look at trading down from the top of the 2nd if another team is willing to provide value. Pulling in a bunch of young talent now can kick-start the rebuilding process and eliminate a lot of future cap issues, at the expense of creating some immediate cap issues and consequent roster shuffling. Why put off until tomorrow what the can be dealt with today?
That's the way I'm looking at it THM .. there is plenty of talent at TE and CB to be had out of Rd 1. Expedite the process by acquiring picks:
Only been saying this for years. Enough of the cornerback hysteria with this franchise. We've went that route twice and it failed. Let's try building the team up the middle and with pass rushers like every winning logical fucking franchise does.
Then I'm in favor of them trading down and amassing picks, players, and immediate salary cap issues. No pain, no gain.
Huh? I don't understand what you're saying. Are you saying you want salary cap issues? If so, why? I don't understand how "no pain, no gain" is beneficial or even applicable in this situation.
Okay, I'll spell it out: While some posters and some draft experts are smitten with several players who are likely to be available at #6, the only player who I see as worth a #6 pick and also has a chance of being available at #6 is Jamal Adams--everyone else is entitled to their opinion on the matter, of course. If Adams is selected before the #6, my preference is heavily toward trading down. In fact, if the Jets could trade down multiple times, all the better. This draft is thick with talent between the bottom of the 1st and top of the third. The more selections the Jets can make in that range, the better, as this roster is in need of starters at many positions, and in need of depth at almost all positions. Unfortunately, this approach is likely deleterious to the 2017 salary cap situation. The necessary adjustments (moving some valuable players off the roster, or making unpleasant contract adjustments) will be inconvenient, but are very much worth the medium- and long-term value of adding more young talent to the roster at this time. That is, the guy the Jets could pick up at #6 would hopefully be better than say, the guy we could pick up at #11, but he's unlikely to be better than the combined value of the #11 and #32, if the Saints were to trade those for the #6. --not saying that particular trade is likely, but certainly a team could trade up from #8 or #9, and package their 2nd rounder with it, if they fell in love with a specific player, and would provide very similar value. I would continue to advocate the same kind of trade with the Jets 2nd round pick, or any picks acquired in trades-- there is a ton of value in this draft all the way through the top of round 3, and there will be some nice gems selected in 4 and 5 this year. And I'm usually a Debbie Downer about draft talent. This one is going to be good, I just don't think the top 15 is where the value is this year, like it is some years. This is a good year to have a lot of picks, rather than a good year to have a top pick.
I agree with you 100%. To top off your trade I'll give our 4th round pick and Sheldon Richardson and get New Orleans third too. At 11 trade for more or take one of the wr, cbs or whoever else and maybe Peppers falls to us at 32. I'd be happy with that. I think it is a dream though.
OK, thanks, now I understand what you mean. I don't think it's a matter of creating problems for the 2017 cap. If they can't/don't trade Richardson, then I don't think they can/will trade down more than once, if at all. If they trade Richardson, then they will have a lot of cap space to play with, and they won't have to make any other moves. Here's the link to over-the-cap.com for the Jets: http://overthecap.com/salary-cap/new-york-jets/ Looking at it, the only cut that would give them the space to sign perhaps a couple of extra draft picks would be Marcus Gilchrist. That would give them $4,625,000 in cap space, but Bowles likes Gilchrist, so I doubt that would happen, and who would start at FS? That would almost guarantee that the Jets would have to take a FS, maybe two in the draft, and with Hooker quite possibly sitting there, why would they then trade down? There would be no guarantees that they'd be able to get one of the other good FS prospects without possibly reaching. I'd love to see Gilchrist cut and see the Jets acquire additional picks, but Mac would have to be extremely good or extremely lucky for things to work out for the Jets, and how often are we lucky at all?
The Jets don't do "Good" or "Lucky". On the other hand, if they plan on trotting Gilchrist out there as a starter again, they aren't going to do much "Winning", either. At FS, Hooker is head and shoulders better than the other prospects, but I'd take one of Budda Baker, Marcus Maye, Marcus Sanders-Williams, or Desmond King, in the second, and still know that I was better off than I was with Gilchrist back there. If we can already expect to pick one of them up with our current 2nd rounder, why not turn the #6 into two, three, or even 4 extra picks of guys with similar talent? I understand the urge to use the #6 to get an ELITE player--Football is a game of inches. However, the 2016 Jets were not losing by inches, they were losing by miles. Unless they can get the second coming of Barry Sanders, Dan Marino, or Lawrence Taylor, one great player isn't going to get this team where it wants to go. Imagine Ronnie Lott was available in this draft at #6--how many games does he help the Jets win over the next two or three years, realistically? To your point, the Jets have certainly proven their ability to waste draft picks either way: Quality, (see Blair Thomas, Dewayne Robertson, Roger Vick, Vernon Gholston, etc, etc, etc.), or Quanity (see Idzik). The Jets don't do "Good" or "Lucky", but I don't expect them to forfeit the draft, so we'll all get to sit back and watch them trade UP in the draft and pick some community college guard who they could easily have picked up as a rookie free agent after the draft was over.
With regards to your bolded statement, because there are no guarantees. The Jets can't expect to pick one of those safeties up. Every one of them could go before the Jets pick, or the Jets may have one or a couple of them ranked lower and think it a reach or not a good value to take the S with their 2nd round pick. Then there's the cap space issue. There are no guarantees that they'll find a team interested in trading for Richardson. As I said in my last post, if they cut Gilchrist, they could sign one or two additional players, but not 3-4. They have to keep some cap space available for during the season. I certainly understand your skepticism/distrust of the Jets, but I'm much more optimistic about the draft than you and trust Mac a lot more than you evidently do.
Your approach is pretty persuasive, especially from the "Don't put all your eggs in one basket" philosophy, but even the best GMs usually only have about a third of their picks pan out - and by that, it doesn't mean they become great, but they're starters. So if they could add another 3 picks following your approach, it might mean they wind up three starters from this year's draft. Their impact would depend a lot on where they play, how they're used, and of course their adapting to the NFL, but they would likely make a significant improvement over what the Jets have now. Of course, that also means that they will probably win a few more games and put themselves in draft purgatory for the foreseeable future, thus limiting how much they can pick up prime talent - FQB? - in those drafts. But in contrast, what if the Jets don't trade down and take an elite player at 6, and doing the math with their 7 picks, they would likely gain two starters instead of three, BUT, one of them would be an immediate IMPACT player, who might be transformative. I see your approach is more like "Slow and steady wins the race", and has a lot going for it, but it might only lead them to become above average, whereas to get to and win a SB you need a few superstars. Given my impatience, I lean towards gambling on finding those superstars, rather than stockpiling above average players.
If the Jets pass on Adams or Hooker for lesser safety talent and crappy qb prospects ill throw up. The talent pool tales a pretty big dip.
I understand what you're saying, too. I just don't think anybody in this draft, outside of Garrett, is likely to turn into an immediate impact, transformative player. Like I said, I'm pessimistic about the top of this year's draft. Hence the difference in our approaches. It will be interesting to look back on this draft in 3-5 years and see how it turns out. You're right, I meant, and should have typed, "The Jets can expect at least one of those FS prospects to be available at their existing 2nd round pick (#37 overall)." I mean it's theoretically possible that 5 FS prospects get picked in the top 36 of the draft, but if that happens, there will be some serious value laying round with at least a couple of players available who should have been picked in the first. I get what you're saying about the cap, and I'm usually pretty adamant about paying the piper now, rather than later-- however, Tanny proved over and over that you can make anything work, cap wise, for at least one year. Pushing some veteran's cap hit down the road to add additional rookie capped contracts isn't going to be the end of the world. Hopefully they can dump Richardson, and take care of everything. As you say, no guarantees, but I can hope.
