i don't understand how everyone keeps saying "all the other holes we need to fill." i agree, we have a bunch. but do you really think the Front Office is going to neglect the OL? Besides, we're only two linemen away from making this a good OL. Then next year, finish fixing it completely; the entire OL doesn't need to be addressed this year, mainly because we still have Kendall and Jones, and soon, hopefully Runyan. Trading down and taking Davis also somewhat improves the OL because he can block and probably will learn to block better. Therefore we get a WR and blocker in Davis. With our 10 other picks, I think we'll be able to address the other needs such as OL, DT, CB.... and that's about it. there aren't as many pressing needs as some are portraying; at least, they aren't needs that need to be addressed in one Offseason. cheers
I posted this on another thread but I think it does a great job of summing up my position on playmakers: As for the second half of your argument(and most peoples arguement against Vernon Davis) - you see TE as a luxury position? How did that happen? How can a role be dictated by a position? Especially in this day and age of the NFL where matchups are exploited through superior talent being placed carefully in different positions. Whole offenses are predicated around creating mismatches through superior talent. All the time I see Gates/Heap/Gonzalez lining out wide like a reciever. I see guys like Priest and Ladaianian lining up wide. HBacks like Cooley all over the field. I see the Patriots using their WR's interchangebly to create confusion. These guys are making a difference because they are playmamkers. Not because they are TE's or RB's or WR's. Fading from the NFL is the idea of set positions or roles. You find a guy with talent and you put him in a position to be successful. All that I ask is that we not overlook a potential gamebreaker because he plays a position that in the past was considered a luxury. We must stay with the times and do what is best for the franchise. If our FO decides that another prospect can make a bigger impact for our team then so be it. But let it be because it is a better prospect - not a prospect who plays a "better" position. __________________
I seriously can't believe that people are just flat out not taking Patrick Ramsey into consideration. Moving up to grab Lienart is NOT an option. You guys would rather give up at least a day 1 pick to move up and grab Lienart, then trade down (pick up at least a 3rd rounder) and select a game breaker like Davis? Plug this guy into our offense, and it opens up everything.
Trent Dilfer won with one of the best D's EVER. That is not the norm.. TE is the last position we should be looking at with this draft..
very well said. it goes beyond "just another TE." and i can't, for the life of me, understand the logic of overlooking Davis because other R1 TE's we drafted didn't pan out. Each player in each draft is different. You can't use previous players/picks as criteria for your current selection. If Davis will improve the Offense, then go for it. I just don't see how Davis, along with a couple of OL, would hurt us; we'd still address the other needs. cheers
Ramsey is playing with one year left on his contract and besides that he is not very good. He is insurance for Chad not being ready to start the season, nothing more. You don't get many chances to get your franchise Qb and when you do get that chance you just can't pass on it.. especially for a TE..
I would hope Hawk or Mario would be the pick. I would prefer Hawk. If you don't have a great QB you better damn well have a great D if your gonna contend. So if we don't go QB, then it should be D. But honestly I don't see any reason we shouldn't go out and get our Qb in the first round. Chances are we will have either Leinart or Cutler staring us in the face and I can't imagine passing on them..
ok we should already have heath miller on our squad but its the jets were talking about. if we can trade down and stay in the top 10 then i guess go for davis. if we traded down then we should recieve a 2nd rounder for it then i say package that second rounder and our 29 to move back down and get a RB preferably White. then we would have davis at TE and White at RB. i'd say these two can make Ramsey look pretty good. lets get some playmakers on this squad. of course if we dont sign runyan then who knows what we'll do.
I do agree with this and I wouldn't expect the guys running the draft to think like that but as a fan of the NYJ, I will never feel comfortable with a first round TE. Ever, no matter how talented he may be..
Ramsey isn't very good, but Lienart is a can't miss franchise qb? You want to give up picks to move up in the first round and grab someone who has yet to play a down in the NFL, when we've got a young guy with a huge upside on our roster? (who has experience by the way) And you keep downplaying Davis' ability by making him out to be a typical run of the mill TE. When you're in the position we're in right now, it makes more sense to grab the playmaker, than another QB who is just as much (if not more) of a question mark than one we've got on the roster already.
I don't understand how some people believe that TE is not a hole, per se. Since when did Jolley turn into Antonio Gates? Listen, my friend goes to MD and I went down a few times to visit her. Of the games I saw MD play, Vernon Davis was by far the most dominant player on the field. Look at the first video that the original poster posted (the 5:00 long one). It shows some of his combine stuff and some things he did on the field. Not only is the guy a top-notch reciever (see the one handed play), he is ridiculously strong (watch him throw the tackler to the ground on the next play in that video). The man is also really fast and has a lot of lower body strength-he was a sprinter/long jumper in track. He has the potential to become a good blocking TE as well, which would help our O-Line immensely. Listen, we're not going to fill all of our holes in one year. But drafting Davis would bring a man in here who could be a potential cornerstone to our offense just as Tony Gonzalez has been for KC. With our first pick, we have to either go Mario Williams or get Davis after a trade down. The OL can be helped with #29 and later on in the draft. As far as QB goes, we don't completely know Chad is done, and Ramsey's got a lot of potential I don't think that it's a position we need to draft for at this point, but rather we should take a wait-and-see approach with it. EDIT: Here's the video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=kq5g7O9YvwQ&search=vernon davis
firstly, i'm not certain we're going for a QB. We'd have four on the roster with a lot of money tied into Pennington and Leinart (who I assume is the guy you want). secondly, i don't think any of these QB's are sure-shots; else why would these teams that have opportunities to draft them be signing free agent QB's? - Instead of trading up, Miami gets Culpepper. - Instead of picking one of the franchise QB's, New Orleans signs Brees, coming off a shoulder injury nontheless. - Instead of moving up to get a franchise QB, the Raiders sign Aaron Brooks (although Vince Young isn't off their radar yet). So what does this tell you? To me, it seems these teams aren't sold on any of these supposed "franchise QB's." Thus, with 3 QB's already on our roster, trading down to take Davis isn't such a bad move; especially when we'll have so many more picks to fix the other areas, like OL, DT, RB, and CB. cheers
There is no such thing as a can't miss player in any draft. If Leinart becomes the QB he is capable of becoming than whatever picks we gave up for him would be meaningless. I am not high on Ramsey one bit and I do not think his upside is very high. Yes he has a stong arm but IMO he does not have the mental capacity to be a good Qb. Ramsey is a stop gap, nothing more..I'm not downplaying Davis' ability at all, he has all the talent in the world and chances are he will be a great NFL player but not for the Jets..
Does anyone doubt that Vernon Davis is the best offensive skill player in this draft, not including Bush or the Qbs? He's EASILY the best receiver, regardless of being a TE. I know that many people feel we need an upgrade at WR. He's Chad Jackson + 50lbs, while keeping the speed. For me, NO WAY we take Vernon Davis at 4. BUT, lets say Bush, Mario, Leinart go in that order, I'd like to trade down to #7 or so and take him, assuming we get a good trade down deal. If we sign Runyan, no way I draft DBrick at 4. I don't trust Cutler that high. Also, I don't think we need to add a LB that high, so Hawk would be unnecessary, IMO.
so we don't need another TE, but we need another LB? i don't get it. i mean, i get the reasoning to draft Hawk because he's a great LB, but I'm applying the same logic to Davis -- he's an excellent TE. and last time i checked, our Offense needs more help than our Defense. I'm not sold on Ramsey either, but I'm also not ready to write him off. Considering his situation at Washington, the guy hasn't really busted yet. Furthermore, I remember Tannenbaum saying they feel Ramsey has "untapped potential," and all he needs is a chance. I don't think they would have brought Ramsey here if they didn't believe he has a chance to be good. And in bringing Ramsey here, I don't think they're going to use a top 5 pick - let alone trade up - to grab another QB who's unproven. cheers
Do you have anything to support that opinion other than the pure speculation that he MAY no be able to handle criticism from the NY media?
I'm not certain we are going for a Qb either. I hope we do though. Of course none of these Qbs are sure shots but you know what, neither is any player in this draft. As for the rest of your post, that doesn't tell me anything. NO signing Brees surprised me but I think that has more to do with there situation and wanting to win right away than there feelings toward Leinart. As for the others, Miami picks 16th, there is no shot one of the Qbs falls to them and trading up would cost a hell of alot more than the 2nd they gave up for a former NFL MVP. The Raiders, give me a break if you think signing Aaron Brooks is gonna keep then from drafting a QB if one drops to them. I don't understand why everyone seems to think that QB is the only position that could be a first round bust, there is no such thing as a gaurantee when it comes to the draft. But when the upside is as high as it is with Leinart(who would be my first choice) and Cutler(Who I would have no problem drafting at 4 ) is worth the chance..
I never said we don't need a TE, we do. Realistcly every position could use an upgrade on this team. LB is probably the least of our worries but like I said if we are not gonna draft a QB, lets build a dominant D..
