I would have nominated this as the 'Quote of the week' if there was one... "some still blame Herm" .... lol...Thats funny and its true aswell.
Don't give us that stuff mate. All I wanna read is "my QB has to win" posts. It does'nt matter how the OL is or the DL or the D is. Its the QBs job to win the game even if the D allows 21 4th quarter points. However, if the defense allows less than 10 pts a game, then the QB has no hand in the victory. That my friend is the idea of a few people on TGG which bothers me, especially when it comes to CP. He had a horrible last yr but that does'nt mean we blame it on him entirely. Some of us do that infact. Now that we have an improved OL and DL, the credit will still not go to CP. Credit will go to the revamped OL and the improved DL.
Judge nailed it, and that's the way it should be. If they play about equal, or even if Chad slightly outplays KC, KC should get the job. A tie goes to the youth and potential.
Both QB's sucked last year. Chad played bad, and then Clemens came in and played worse. These arguments are so stupid because it is very obvious that if these are the 2 options, there should be a competition, so all this debating about who should start before that competition takes place makes no sense. Chad was the better player last year. Does that mean he should start for sure? No it doesn't, Clemens is going to get better. Does that mean Clemens should start for sure? No, we don't know how much better he's going to get. Training camp and the preseason is going to and should decide who the starter will be, all this fighting and arguing now doesn't make much sense
Watching them play, and stats as well. You really aren't trying to argue that Clemens outplayed Pennington last year, are you? I don't see what record has to do with it, we are talking about one position. He only played really well in one of his 3 wins anyway, the Miami game.
Cheez Whiz! I wish I could say something but this thread pretty much sums up the whole situation. My congrats to all posters. Very good comments all around. My biggest problem with Chad was that he had all these great stats (no INTs, great completion %, etc.) under Paul Hackett's system. BUT!!! Almost every Jets fan had a problem with said system. Yet many Jets fans still insist that Chad is the Man because of said stats under said system. BUT... his stats sucked once he went to a new system. My fear about Kellen Clemens is that he was the "QB of the Future" drafted by our new "brain trust" but he looks like a bust. If he is truly a bust (which indicts our management team), then that doesn't leave us a lot to look forward to, since Mr. Woody wants to keep the current management large and in charge. Hate to be negative, but the future looks bleak.
i agree. no matter how bad our FO wants clemens to win it, pennington 's field smarts will prevail. if it's true what they say about that high ankle sprain hindering him, last season, i think he can have a good year for us, if healthy.
Why are so many media reps, making such a big deal about this QB competition? Then stating that we NEED to win now, or Mangini will be on the short bus home. It is retarded. We have clearly stated we are not in the "win now" mindset, yet everyone seems to think otherwise. You break it down, it is clear. If you truly don't have a "win now" mindset, then this is the perfect time to be having a QB competition. We get this unfortunate task out of the way now, so we can advance later. I still don't think the 1st offense will be hurt any by this competition, so who cares? Pennington has experience (something that can be taught in time) but lacks the physical tools needed for the position. Obviously. Clemens lacks that experience, but has a lot of the physical tools you look for in your "future" QB. This is something that will be taught to him in time, so why not give him the reigns and let him attempt to get some wins for us. Just my thinking I guess..
I think that it is KC's job to lose because we need to now if he is the guy for now and the next few years. If he can't win the job, i think we need to start looking to someone else to be our franchise quarterback! XP
No one was interested in Chad? No one was interested in Mangold, Rhodes, cotchery, coles, and revis either. You know why? Because just like Chad, none of them were available via signing or tade. Its hard for other teams to be interested in players that are under contract and the front office has no intention of trading.
Stats and how well he plays. If you havent noticed, there are actually 53 players on every team. To compare wins and losses for a qb is just plain stupid, because they are only part of the equation. If you want to go according to ure brilliant mind, based on last year's w-l record Vince Young was an elite qb and Carson Palmer is one of the worst qb's in the NFL. QB's alone do not determine wins and losses, teams do. Did Tom Brady lose last year's super bowl since he was terrible? No, he actually played very well but his O line sucked against the giants. Do we blame the patriots loss in the super bowl on Brady? You would, every other rational person would blame it on the offensive line.
What is this nonsense of Chad being a "known" player while Clemens being an "unknown" player. You dont start a qb simply because he is an unknown. If you want to argue that we know already what Chad can do, but we arent sure what Clemens can do, then maybe I should start at qb for the Jets this season. Im an unknown too, you never know, I could be a great qb for the Jets.
First of all, no one from outside the club would think the club was interested in moving those players. I also disagree with the general point that even any of them would not have been traded at ANY price. The point is that you are talking about a former starter who lost his job last year, twice. It should be clear he has no medium term future with a rebuilding team, perhaps not even a short term future, at least as a starter. If anyone wanted him, thought he would fit, they would have shown some interest. More to the point, Chad expressed unhappiness with his situation last season, and the Qb competition was announced shortly into the off season. The statements out of hte FO were ambiguous enough to encourage anyone to make an offer, and certainly were not statements that the club had no intersest in trading him, certainly not no interest under any circumstances as you suggest. Your post ignores the reality of how players are traded, and how teams make offers. All such cases do not involved situations such as Terrell Owens's trades where a public blowup precedes a demand to be traded. Anyone who thought they would want to start Chad without a Qb comp in camp was welcome to make an offer to the Jets. No one did. Tells you something.
This is a false dichotomy. What it ignores is that we KNOW what Chad's limitations are, and they are significant. He in effect has a ceiling of ability that he is not going to exceed. He has a proven track record of mediocrity and worse. Clemens has no proven track record of any longevity. We do not know what the limits are on his upside. He had to come in mid way last year with a team that was already out of the playoffs. The play book was designed for Chad, and not him. The first teamers had been practicing with Chad since camp opened. The OL sucked, and they could not run the ball. The team's best receiver was soon out as well. When Clemens came in, the OL continued to suck, but somehow the running game was better. I may be a fool for saying so, but I think that had something to do with Chad drawing 8 and 9 in the box and not being able to exploit those defenses. Clemens could not be boxed in like that. Clemens still had receivers drop passes on him at critical moments. But the team scored more points with him in, won more games with him in, and did not disgust me to look at the same shitty Qb playing his same lousy, boring, checkdown game, throwing for three yard completions, nice percentage!, on third and seven, not to mention wounded ducks on ten yard out patterns. Yet you want more of the same from Chadwick. I must respectfully disagree.
I never believed anyone could successfully give me a reason why Chad Pennington should be the Quarterback for the Jets in 2008. Yet, people have fairly eloquently done so throughout this offseason. Nonetheless, I feel that continuing to go with Pennington would be a tremendous mistake by the Jets Coaching Staff, and I say this as a former staunch Pennington supporter. Last year, when everyone was clamoring for Kellen Clemens to come in and play after the preseason, I felt that Chad had earned himself a mulligan. The preseason games are overevaulated, and I thought they hardly proved that Chad had lost a step. After early-season losses, and Clemens' solid game against Baltimore I still felt that Chad was the best player for the Jets. It wasn't until Week 5 against the Giants when Chad Pennington proved his inability to make the most pedestrian of throws. If I remember correctly, he was picked off twice on 7 to 10-yard-outs and also made perhaps the worst throw I'd ever seen, a floater off of his back foot that fell about 5 yards short of the end zone without any pressure on an attempted fade. While Kellen Clemens failed to prove any substantial greatness throughout his first season, he was plagued by a poor offensive line and injuries throughout his wide receiver core. Further, though Mangini would never admit it, it is likely that by that point, once the Jets had been eliminated from the playoff hunt, that many players had "quit" on the team, and stopped putting in the effort they had earlier in the season. While Chad Pennington was hampered by many of the same adversities as Clemens, he proved himself to be an incapable quarterback. He was the comeback player of the year a season prior, but his play was still quite pedestrian, with just 17 Touchdown passes and 16 Interceptions. Clemens may be an enigma, but it's better than a known failure.
This is all total guessing and speculation by you. Nobody has any idea what interest was shown, both on the parts of other teams, and from the Jets, about making a trade. The only thing we do know is that Chad approached the Jets about maybe making a trade and they said no. I'm sure he wasn't untouchable but it's pretty clear the Jets weren't desperate to trade him, and it's very possible, even very likely that other teams made calls and talks didn't get far enough to generate serious noise around the league.
So you admit that they faced the same adversities but Chad proved himself to be incapable but Clemens didn't? And if your basing this on 2 seasons ago then why before the season started last year did you want Chad to start if he was already a known failure?
Jets n Boys I agree with you on everything *in theory*...but I just don't want to see Chad behind center again. He's a good QB who can definitely start and be productive behind a good team, but iunno...I'd have to see it to believe it. I usually try to stay open minded on something like this...but I just can't root for Chad. It's like going back to your ex right in the middle of the breakup process while trying to break in a new girl at the same time. It's just not kosher to me.
