Yes. Think of it this way, you have a young guy who is low profile,inexpensive and gets a ton of credit from Drew Brees for making him a better player.He was taught by his father and Cam Cameron(remember when Balt. was a bad O team, before Cam?) Schotty was sought after by a bunch of teams before last year. He even got a couple of HC interviews.He is thought of as a young Sean Payton and his Dad is highly respected. This O was hurt by the loss of Leon, much worse than I realized. Weis would be the most high profile OC in football. He is very good, but is also very abrasive. He wants to get paid,it doesn't matter what ND owes him. He is old and in poor health.It should also be noted that NE's O improved after he left. I understand a bunch of teams called him, but why wouldn't they?3 teams fired there OC's before the first game, 4 teams currently don't even have OC's. Washington brought in a guy who was calling Bingo games, a year or 2 before that the Raiders grabbed a guy who was selling Real Estate. Would those guys have been hired over Brian too? Josh McDaniels would have been hired over Brian, not Weis.
^ i really don't agree with anything here. Schotty is not what you perceive him to be. He isn't known for making Brees better, Payton has that nod. A young Sean Payton he is not. Weis isn't as abrasive as you think, and he's a better QB developer 10-fold. The Pats O improved because he left and guys like Randy Moss and Wes Welker showed up. That didn't seem obvious to you? Interestingly enough, it was Weis at the helm with 3 rings and the greatest offense of all time with no ring. So that good offense means nothing. I'm truly amazed that you think Schotty has anything, and I do mean anything, over Charlie Weis. Amazing.
Ask Drew Brees about Schotty. There was an article written about their relationship earlier this season.BTW Belichek has gone on record saying he was one of the best young guys in the biz. What exactly has Schotty had to work with so far? How did they look with a healthy Favre? His biggest mistake so far is trusting his rookie QB too much and letting him put the ball in the air late in games.Outside of Mangold, what Offensive players do we have that are Pro Bowl level? Its too early to judge how Sanchez to Edwards will turn out. Did Schotty make Keller fumble that TD?or Edwards drop that 2 pointer? I watched some of nearly every ND game this year. They had no business losing to UConn and Navy. Weis' play calling at the end of the USC game was HORRIBLE. Worse than anything I've ever seen Brian do.Weis lost games with MUCH better talent than the other teams he played. If you asked me which one I would take today, its not a contest. Weis is an innovator, the whole pass as a run thing is his.The NY papers would tear him a new ass if he were here though. As far a the SB's go, the Pats didn't win because their D was toast. Not because Weis wasn't there.
talk about coaches that got run out of town. callahan is at the top. oakland then nebraska. has been is more like it.
Yeah. We should hire Kansas' head coach if he gets fired for the sole purpose of making Rex look skinny. Although his name is Mangino, which sounds a little too much like a certain someone that's no longer here.
Huh? The Pats D was much better and younger when Weis was OC. That's why they won those SB's. Think back to the first SB against the Rams. It was all about the D. Did you like Weis when he was the Jets OC? Did you like how he reacted when Parcells reprimanded him? Why didn't he get a HC job in the NFL before ND? 2 reasons. Health and personality. He would be good in other places, not here. I think he is very good, just not a fit for us right now.
Think back to the game winning field goals by Vinatieri with Weis directing Brady to put them in range. He didn't get a HC job in the NFL because ND gave him an insane contract. I'd go the college ranks with the ransom they handed him.
It certainly does depend on how you look at it. Ready to give the benefit of the doubt to Sanchez I gather is what it depends on. You referred to two games. The Jets have lost six. I agree the D played its worst game in the first Miami game, and the special teams were primarily responsible in the second. I totally disagree that you can hang the loss to the Jags primarily on the D, though. It was a total team effort. The only siginificant difference between the teams was that Sanchez threw two interceptions, and Garrard none. Giving up roughly 21 ppg is average in the league this year. In view of the three turnovers, including Sanchez's first pick that led to a score, I don't know if it's fair to weight the whole 24 the Jags scored against the D, so in effect the D in the Jags game were average. It's worth considering, however, if the standard is whether the team with the ball at the end scores or not in a one score game that even in the second Miami game the Jets had a chance to win the game on their last possession, but Sanchez threw an incomplete pass into the end zone on fourth down. Why not hang that loss on him, too? Because the special teams gave up two td's is the right answer, but what happened to the standard of whether the team with the ball and a chance to win does so or not? Look, you guys want to think more highly of Sanchez right now, not in a couple of more years when I hope to be seeing more from him, than the facts, right now, imo justify. Optimism can be admirable at times, I do believe. But not when it contradicts the facts too much. No, it is not fair to look at the 29th ranked Qb in the league with the second best rushing game, an excellent OL, and the second ranked pass D as even an average Qb at this point. He's been mediocre at best. That doesn't mean he won't get better, of course. I certainly hope so.
Vinatieri is the most clutch kicker in NFL history because of Charlie Weis' playcalling? Haha.Well sort of. Weis' contract with ND was so good, that after he had a great first year(with Willingham's players) He had ND TEAR UP his contract and give him a new one or he would go back to the NFL. True Story. Look it up.
That's why it gets tricky when we start trying to assign definitive blame to individuals in a team game. There are a couple of instances this year where Sanchez was clearly the culprit, but mostly, as usual, it isn't so cut and dried. Even the Buffalo game, which is one of them, we were lined up for the winning kick in OT and the holder dropped the ball after Hartstock moved us back with a penalty. You mentioned the home Miami game, Sanchez certainly had the ball in his hands at the end with a chance to win, but he also played well enough to win had we not given up 21 points on returns. So you can put it all on the last posession or not, he did get us right to the doorstep on that last drive. In the Jacksonville game it was just infuriating that the D could hold them to all 3-and-outs the whole second half until we got the lead, then they can't stop them. You can say they gave up only 3 points, but we all saw the guy take a knee at the 1 yard line, too. You can also blame Sanchez and the coaches for burning stupid timeouts to create that situation. Great halftime adjustements to shut them down, poor use of timeouts. To me what is encouraging is that Sanchez does step up at the end of games for the most part. If you remember Eli Manning's early years, the first thing he excelled at was moving the team in the 4th quarter with the game in the balance, even if he looked like a rookie for most of the game. I see that with Sanchez so far, too.
I know. That's a great move by Weis. He ensured his longevity. What he forgot to do was recruit linemen for Clausen after the 06 season, because Jimmy had about 1.3 seconds to throw every game that year.
Not to mention Hartsock is directly responsible for 2 losses IMO. If we kept Baker, we easily could be 7-4 right now. Everything would look different.
IS, Well, I basically agree with all you said. The main point is it is a team game, and saying that this or that player won the game or, more to the point, a loss could be primarily pinned on one player or even unit, is a problematic and probably stupid enterprise in most cases. Some cases, particular cases, it is a less difficult and more persuasive enterprise. For example, I thought the Jags game was really a team loss. Yeah, the O moved the ball but also turned it over three times. The D gave up too much in the first half. It was on both sides of the ball. I just get the feeling that some here literally think that if Sanchez only turns the ball over twice, or even more than that and somehow the Jet D ends up on the field when the opponent goes ahead for the win, that such a game was really a Sanchez Win(*), despite mediocre at best play from him. It's really silly. And of course the asterisk stands for a game I will find at least one other poster here agree with me when I say Sanchez played well enough to win the game. That is far too generous and as a consequence a meaningless analysis. As you say it is usually not so cut and dried.
Oh, sweet fucking Jesus. How can ANYONE defend this numbskull named Brian Schottenheimer? Just look at the numbers for Christ's sake. Neither Matt Ryan nor Joe Flacco threw 16 picks by the midseason like Mark did. They threw far more TD strikes than picks as well. You know that Old Man up in Minnesota? He sucked big time here in the Big Apple. Pennington threw a lot of picks under BS system. So... it's either all these QBs learn how to suck while donning the Jets uniform, or there's something else - i.e. BS sucks shit. Under the Okham's razor, I'd take the "BS sucks shit" choice over "Somehow miraculously all these QBs learn how to suck while donning Jets uniform." Look. Heaving the ball 30 times a game is NOT how you protect your prized rookie QB. Especially if you have a functional running game, you must HEAVILY rely on the running game. We all have seen how that formula worked well for Joe Flacco and Ben Roethlisberger.
I think that is a very accurate statement, MS has put this team in the hole more times than not, and that's the reason why we are 5-6, I know all QB throw interceptions, however Takeaways and Giveaways are a very relevant statistic in the NFL because they affect the outcome of the game, think of what this defense has done even with all of his TO's. Just imagine how good this team would be if he did not give the other team points and opportunities to the degree that he has. :wink: :jets:
If it makes you BS supporters any happier: Mark's performance is very comparable to another top draft pick QB, Matthew Stafford, playing for that 2-9 Lions. I mean, this Jet team is much better than that loser of a franchise, no?
I agree with everthing you list here , but don't waste your time trying to convince others. The villagers have their pitchforks and torches ready - they're out to get the monster Shotty.
To be honest , I don't care what Big Ben or Matt Ryan did , why do we need to compare Sanchez to anyone. And Favre looks great this year because he's playing in a system he's known all of his career, last year he was force fed into the Jets offense I've seen Sanchez lock onto his primary reciever in a majority of his Int's this year. How can that have anything to do with our offensive system . Its plain and simple he's not going through his progressions and he's also not thrown the ball away on a few occasions.
You guys ripping Cimini need to get a life -- and a brain. The guy has been covering the Jets for 20 years. He has more access and contact to Jet players, Jets executives, and NFL personnel/contacts in 1 week than we all do in decades. His sources and scoops have largely been spot-on. I've read him for most of his 20 years and he's a damn good reporter. Do I like everything he writes ? No. Do I agree with all his thrusts and angles ? No. But does that mean that he's a jerk who doesn't know what he's writing about? Hell No !!! In this case, Cimini is speculating based on a couple of inferences: (1) Schotty was 'stunned' by Ryan's involvement in the offense (although I think this has been overrated as Ryan is just macro-managing and not micro-managing or taking over the offensive play calling). (2) Schotty was very disappointed that he didn't get the Jets job (and again, I think Schotty should NOT have been surprised at that so he shouldn't be upset but that's JMHO). Ryan, in a similar situation after 2007 when he didn't get some head coaching jobs, convinced Schotty to stay. They may still have this bond: 2 up-and-coming coordinators who missed out on head coaching jobs when they were 'hot' and then had bad followup seasons and needed to re-establish themselves. (3) I think Schotty is a good offensive coordinator and Sanchez seems to like him. (4) Do we really want to break-in another offensive coordinator and start over again ? That said....if Schotty really is pissed (as opposed to just being piqued short-term by Ryan sitting in the O-meetings) or if Ryan really has lost faith in Schotty (no proof of this, as opposed to him FIRING his friend and D-coordinator), yes, Schotty could be out at seasons end. Personally, I hope Schotty comes back....helps Sanchez have a much better year (QB rating of 85 or higher)....then, if he gets a head coaching job, I'll wish him the best. I see no better offensive coordinator out there than Schotty. Does he drive me nuts at times? Damn right he does....but looking at it objectively, we know we'll be bitching at ANY O-coordinator who comes in and runs on 3rd-and-long or any of the other things that we bitch about here at GG.com.
