If the other team stops our running game so they can rush the passer (this assumes of course that they are way out in the lead), then any QB will have a hard time down field. He will be busy getting his but sacked, his head cracked, and he will be looking for those short passes that gets the ball out of his hands before he gets mashed -- even though the DBs are sitting down hard on every one of those short routes. In the playoffs, you advance because your defense keeps you in the game and the your offense runs the ball well enough to win the game or at least well enough to keep the DBs honest. A lot of people on this thread must still believe in the Lone Ranger. I used to like him a lot when I was a kid. But then, oh yes, this is football. There are 10 others on the offense. Oh yeah...
You ducked my question on this. If the CS decides to either unload Chad, trade him or not hold a competition does that mean you agree with him or just have no real opinion?
Dude, you're banging your head against the wall. Some of these guys here sit in their parents' basements 24/7 constantly obsessing on and trashing Chad Pennington to no end--in March, in June, in October, it makes no difference. They were doing it before he came back from surgery, won Comeback Player of the Year and took us back to the playoffs with a rookie coaching staff, no running game and a sporadic defense. You can make sense from now until training camp, it won't matter to them. The coaches and management know what's up and that's all that matters.
Quote: "...On this tree, Chad absolutely CANNOT complete the 3 or 5 routes. He struggles on and off with the 1 and 7 routes, generally only completing the 1 route as a check-off if it's left open, and the 7 if he is given an opportunity to put a LOT of air under the ball, so as to allow the WR to go up and make a play..." Just ask yourself -- why in the world would the NYJ CS let Chad play at all if they thought for a minute that what you say is true...?
It doesn't make sense, and that is why I am opposed to the decision... Chad has established himself as a leader, and a guy who the other players like... All the while, his physical ability has deteriorated to the point at which he is no longer capable of making all the throws.... Again, just because the CS decides something does NOT mean it is the correct decision.... Only fools are blindly loyal....
Somebody asked me this question before and I answered it. But suffice it to say, I accept the fact that as a fan I don't have access to 2/3 of the off-season where the real work is being done, and the competition between players is actually being held. The CS is going to make a decision based on the body of work each player has amassed. If the CS decides based on their observations to suddenly stop the competition strategy, trade Chad, play Kellen, bring in another veteran (please not Brooks, I hope, although the guy will probablly be on a par with him), and draft a new QB -- hey, so be it. If the CS decides to go through with the competition that they have told everybody, including the players, is going to happen, and Chad loses out the Kellen, or Kellen loses out to Chad -- hey, so be it. I think the big problem with NYJ was the OL; I also think that the defense needed to stop the run and get after the passer much better. There is also the problem of overall team speed. I would like very much to see some speed drafted -- on the outside among the wide outs, and on the defense as well. I expect the NYJ to run over people this year. Tony Richardson leading the way for Leon and Thomas. This is not, as Tom Rock was quick to quip, a Stop-us-if-you-can strategy, but it certainly does beef up the play action passing by an order of magnitude: If you don't stop us we're going to run to the house, again and again. So you better play the run first and foremost because it's likely coming down your throat. We cannot run for 2 yards on first down. We have to run for 6 or 10 yards on first down. People don't respect the ferocity of the NYJs. Their hits are a joke. When the NYJ are feared, and the rival DBs are shirking their tackles before the end of the first half because they are getting regularly run over, then the jokes will end. My opinion is that we should win and that we can only win with a running game that takes the starch out of the other guy and sets up the pass. Assholes who do nothing but throw the ball all the time eventually hit upon a buzzsaw that chops them down to size as FINALLY happened to the Pats. I am only sorry it wasn't the NYJ that stomped them out.
At least I now know your argument is soley based on the CS comment and has nothing to do with your own opinion on how good or bad Chad or even Clemens is.
I have watched every play made in anger by both QBs, and a lot of those in pre-season games, too. There are some things I like about Chad and there are some things I like about Kellen. But Winstonbiggs, football for me is not ballet. Football is about marvelous violence. The fact that DBs are taught to tackle by tripping people at the ankles with their bodies is anathema. If the DB is so dainty and slight that that's all he can do, then perhaps he should just go up to Canada. The NYJ do not play fiercely. Never mind enough. The team is intelligent, largely passionless at the bottom line, and yet seems to building up its heart. I am looking for the day that the NYJ runs the other team off the field -- REGULARLY -- not just because of bad lightning. The NYJ need to learn to strike fear in the hearts of the other men so that the "I don't wanna do that" looks begin to appear in the second quarter. You guys that are worried about the skill players keep wondering why we are losers. It's because the NYJ haven't risen from the dead and stomped out the other guy near enough. That's what I really care about. It's called football, not Madden or Fantasy Footsie or Lollipop Pigskin, or Candy Cotton, either. For my money, it is more fun when you beat somebody in football, not just trick them at last. Still, it was fun to watch the NYJ so befuddle the Green Bay Packers in 06 that they didn't know whether get up or sit down, go backward or forward, and could only shake their heads in disgust. That was fun. But it is far more satisfying to see the other team gradually quit and the rest of the game becomes a laugher where you just run the ball and bust some faces.
From Jay GREENberg in The Post: WHAT were the odds? Longer than Chad Pennington can get a football downfield, for sure. At the end of 2007, Pete Kendall had a better chance of coming back to the Jets than Pennington. Eric Mangini had a greater shot at running Bill Belichick's booth at a video camera trade show. "Things didn't look too bright for No. 10 standing in green, that's for sure," Dangling Chad said yesterday. And now that he is, much of Jets Nation mistakenly believes things don't look too bright for the green in 2008. Kellen Clemens, the quarterback of the future who replaced Pennington in Game 8, largely flopped, so Mangini and GM Mike Tannenbaum flip-flopped. The best backup they could get was the one they had already under contract, albeit one with a $7 million cap hit for 2008. That's a lot to spend on insurance. But having forked over $141 million to free agents to rebuild their offensive line and give themselves a pass rush, the Jets had to pay up or risk another 4-12 while finding out Clemens can't do the job. The fact that they were not prepared to make that sacrifice suggests Clemens has to beat out Pennington during this camp, not the other way around. If the kid can't, and the Jets are using a high pick next April on a quarterback, there are worse things - including at least half of the NFL's current starting quarterbacks compared to Pennington on two good legs. Turns out, he only had one a year ago. "Two torn ligaments in my right ankle, it was extremely difficult," he said yesterday. "The first two months of my offseason was re-centering my whole body that had shifted to the left. "That was one of those injuries that showed me your base is so important. Everything is connected from the ground up." Because winning in the NFL starts from the ground up, the Jets hope to pound the run, manage the ball, something a quarterback who has been around nine years and won two playoff games can handle. Alan Faneca and Damien Woody were signed to better watch the quarterback's back, and Pennington is determined to strengthen the wet noodle extending from his right shoulder through improved mechanics. "You look at the good throwers in this league, they really use their bodies really well," he said. "They don't leave their arms hanging out to dry. "I want to become a consistent thrower downfield. If you don't get your body in position, it doesn't matter how strong your arm is. It causes inconsistency." The accuracy of the most accurate passer in NFL history suffered last year more because of his legs than because of his twice-surgically-repaired shoulder, which, remember, was plenty strong enough to get a Jets team with no running game to 10-6 and the playoffs in 2006. This is a proven leader who at age 32 has more years remaining to win games than Brett Favre, plus a lot less ambivalence about playing and a greater desire to be in New York. If the Jets really believe they can win more by next year with Clemens, they should go with him. But if they were confident of that, Pennington would be gone and somebody cheaper and easier on a second-year starters' sense of security would be holding the clipboard. "I am here, so let's take advantage and roll with it," Pennington said. Signs point to the Jets thinking the same way. As they should until Clemens provides reason to believe otherwise. jay.greenberg@nypost.com
I love this thread. Pennington was only bad because of the o-line and his yearly injury but Clemens - he's just bad. I'm officially rooting for Ratliff and Ainge.
That's what a bunch of us were saying back when the frenzy began so it really won't come as any kind of shock if it's another season of CP. As much as a lot of us would like to see the Pennington era come to a close it just doesn't seem all that likely at this point. Lost of people seem to think that Mangini isn't going anywhere even if he posts another losing season. I think that's crazy talk. The Jets have talent on both sides of the ball, maybe not upper tier from top to bottom but its not as bad as some people make it out to be. I'm sure Mangini realizes that it he falls on his face again this season he may be looking for a job, and Pennington might just be the security blanket he needs to get to sleep at night.
I'm not sure how you can prove that Pennington was bad b/c of the o-line, but Clemens is bad just b/c he is, they played behind the same o-line.
So you like an over powering tough team but you also like a pussy at QB who doesn't have the arm or the mind set to break the opponents back when the opportunity presents itself. My favorite team was the Steelers and Bradshaw defined punching the opponent in the mouth.
Yeah - but Clemens didn't have torn ligaments in his ankle and he still sucked. In 2002 Chad Pennington led the team to the division title, smoked Brett Favre and the packers in week 17 and then led the team to a beat down of Peyton Manning and the Colts IN THE PLAYOFFS. Pennington has the most wins (Tied with PEYTON MANNING) for a visiting starting QB in Foxboro since 2002. Pennington also threw a bomb to Santana Moss IN THE PLAYOFFS @ San Diego so don't give me the weak arm nonsense. Clemens just sucks. Did you see him play last year? Ratliff or Ainge in 2008.
Green Lantern. Sorry to burst you bubble about Chad, a person I repect greatly, but the facts are the facts. Chad was not, is not, and will not be the future of the Jets. He is cerebral ok, but not capable of preventing good defenses from adjusting their game to his glearing weaknesses. He is not a deep threat ever. He is prone to injury and very predictable in his short game. They will suffocate our running game again and force him to throw under pressure, another one of his weak points. If we are ready to throw KC under the bus after 1/2 season with a sorry line then be prepared to get another QB, because Chad is not it. I say give Kellen the same chance Chad got in his good years and then decide.
With that said players like Brady, Moss, Manning and Lt strike the most fear in the opposing teams. The Ravens defense has been great for almost ten years and Ray Lewis is probably the most feared defender of that time and they have one Sb to show for it. Why? Because they did not get a QB in all that time!
For the same reason that the Jets might want to bring in Brett Favre. They want to win football games now. Playing Pennington doesn't insure a losing season. In fact, his track record shows quite the opposite.
