who said the jets didn't like him? that wasn't the point i was focusing on the point where paradis said he wanted to go somewhere he could win a SB. carolina is much closer then us to that. and there was an article where paradis said that, i just can't find it (about wanting to live in the country) jets brought him in but it didn't work out. it happens. he's also coming off a major injury and may not be the same after which could be a concern too. Either way it's done and not that big of a deal
Normally, I would say you're right but poor offensive line play can not be understated last year. If Darnold didnt have the ability to escape the pocket, he would have been sacked 50 times last year. Then there was the amount of times that the Jets were facing 2nd or 3rd and long situations because our running game got completely stuffed. This made it harder on Darnold to convert first downs. Osmele is a good upgrade over Long, our weakest link. But we still have essentially a backup center and a below average guard in Winters starting for us. Our tackles are average at best. If we don't start fixing things now its gonna get even worse and it will take at least 2 seasons to fix it.
osmele didn't replace long. he replaced carpenter. long was replace by harrison the final 3 games or so and our offense was pretty good those games. not saying harison is the answer but we can get a C in the draft. rome wasn't built in a day and you can't fix a shit o-line overnight.
I agree with your analysis on the OL. Everyone seems to want to upgrade the center position ONLY. As you state, the rest of it is nothing to write home above either. Harrison, Winters and both tackles are starters only because McCagnan has ignored the OL for four years in a row on draft days.
Right, and this is McCagnan's fifth year to ignore the OL on draft day (again) and it still sucks. But let's give him more time to build an OL , right?
I don't think the bolded is true at all. Back before FA even began, I and others wanted Mac to sign a C and at least one, if not two OGs. I also mentioned names of FA RTs as well that I thought would be good signings. I think that many, if not most of us, want to upgrade other positions on the OL as well, but because of where we are picking in the 1st round, the fact that we don't have a 2nd round pick, the scarcity of good OL prospects in the draft, the fact that we also have glaring needs at CB and edge rusher, and this isn't the draft to make massive changes to our OL, know that we're probably going to have to wait until next year to draft our future LT, upgrade Winter's spot and maybe Shell's. Next year's draft is going to be a very good one for OL. We're focusing on C now mostly because Mac didn't sign a C, CB or edge rusher in FA and all we have at C is Harrison and Toth. We also know that the odds of Mac drafting 2-3 OL in this draft are slim and none, unless he drafts a couple in the 6th and 7th rounds. That's been one of the reasons I've wanted to trade down so we could add a 2nd round pick and hopefully assure ourselves of getting one of the the best C prospects. If we do, then we should be able to take an OG in the 3rd or 4th round who could potentially push Winters (I like Dru Samia and Ben Powers of Oklahoma). Even with Paradis and Morse signing elsewhere, I've also said that I think not signing Sullivan or Josh Sitton was a mistake. Mac could have also signed Quentin Spain to compete with Winters, but didn't. If healthy, even at 33 (by the time the season starts) he will probably be better than Winters. I wouldn't have had a problem with cutting Winters and signing Sitton to start at RG. Maybe the Jets have a handshake deal with Sitton that if they aren't able to get an OG in the draft, that they will bring him in for TC. I definitely agree that Mac should have done more to upgrade the OL by now, and you also know that I wanted Mac fired this offseason and I think last year as well. There have been some good OL that Mac has eschewed drafting in favor of other positions.
How do you think we should go about fixing the OL in this draft? Who do you think the Jets should draft?
i mean in 5 years he did trade for clady and osemele, sign bechum, long, and swanson, and draft shell. He took over a team with an aging o-line and had our franchise LT and C both retire and that's not easy to replace. the oline is a work in progress but to pretend mac ignored it, is well nonsense. we had holes everywhere when he took over and we weren't even allowed a proper rebuild. would you have preferred say kolten miller in the 1st round over adams? miller was the 1st LT taken, failed already and is being moved to RT and adams is a pro bowler. we also needed a QB which cost us 4 picks. rome wasn't built in a day
The Patriots have drafted eight OL the last 4 years. MacCagnan has drafted two OL the last 4 years, and both in round 5, for Christ's sake 5-11, 5-11, and 4-12 the last 3 years. Keep defending McCagnan. Hey, Rome wasn't built in a day, but what is it now, his 5th draft and still a piss poor, old OL is what McCagnan can show us. His refusal to use a decent pick on the OL is one of the main reasons the jets are annually competitive for the basement of the AFC East.
the patriots have had a FQB for the past 20+ years and also one who makes less then his value so they can sign more players. That's a big luxury to have.
Yeah but the fact remains is that they make their OL a priority. They have kept perhaps the best OL Coach in the game and they draft, trade for, and sign OL that fit their scheme and play well.
it's easy to make o-line your priority when you have a 6 time SB winning QB taking less money so you can invest more in the o-line. even with that they have let their starting LT walk 2 years on a row now. their o-line ability is overstated because brady gets rid of the ball so fast as well. what other team has 2 LTs walk via free agency 2 years in a row both to mega contracts?
Seriously? That's your defense of Mac? Clady was pretty much done. Swanson didn't even make the team. Long got injured and wasn't very good. I'll give you that there haven't been as many top OL in the draft over the last several years as in years past, but still there have been OL worth drafting. Just last season was a pretty good draft for OL. Rd. 1 - Quenton Nelson, Matt McGlinchey, Kolton Miller, Frank Ragnow, Billy Price, Isaiah Wynn, Rd. 2 - Austin Corbett, Will Hernandez, Braden Smith, James Daniels, Connor Williams, Brian O'Neill, Rd. 3 - Brandon Parker, Geron Christian, Martinas Rankin, Orlando Brown, Joe Notebook, Chukwuma Okorafor, Alex Cappa and Mason Cole were taken in the first 3 rounds. Not all of those have panned out or will pan out, but many of them have. If Mac had taken Pat Mahomes in 2017 as he should have, the Jets would have had 2 second round picks and a 3rd round pick they could have used on their OL in last year's draft instead of trading up to get Sam 2017 wasn't a very good draft for OL at least in terms of quantity, but there were some good ones. Garrett Bolles and Ryan Ramczyk went in the 1st round. Cam Robinson, Forrest Lamp, Ethan Pocic, Dion Dawkins and Taylor Moton went in the 2nd round. Pat Elflein, Dan Feeney, and Antonio Garcia went in the 3rd round. Again, not all have or will pan out, but I think most have, and we could have drafted at least one of them. In 2016, Ronnie Stanley, Jack Conklin, Laremy Tunsil, Taylor Decker, Ryan Kelly, Joshua Garnett, and Germain Ifedi went in the 1st round. To Mac's credit he tried to trade up for Tunsil, but then passed on the other top OL prospects. Jason Spriggs, Nick Martin, and Cody Whitehair went in the 2nd round. Max Tuerk, Shon Coleman, Joe Thuney, Isaac Seumalo, Le'Raven Clarke, Graham Glasgow and Rees Odhiambo went in the 3rd round. Mac traded up in the 5th to take Shell. In 2015, Brandon Scherff, Ereck Flowers, Andrus Peat, Cameron Erving, Cedric Ogbuehi, DJ Humphries and Laken Tomlinson all went in the 1st round. Donovan Smith, Mitch Morse, Jake Fisher, Rob Havenstein, Ty Sambrailo, and Ali Marpet went in the 2nd round. Jeremiah Poutasi, AJ Cann, Hroniss Grassu, Jamon Brown, John Miller and Chaz Green went in the 3rd round. Not all those players have or will pan out, but many of them have. The Jets had opportunities to draft a number of them without moving up or down, and that was always an option as well. The bottom line is that Mac has not valued the OL. He has tried to get by with cheap re-treads, older vets and low round draft picks. If he doesn't get a starting Center in this draft, he should be fired after not signing one in FA.
Sorry, but that's nonsense. A GM that's trying to rebuild his team, either as a competitive rebuild, which Mac did for his first two years, or a complete rebuild, which we're working on now, should have made the OL a top priority. The Jets' OL was in shambles. Both Brick and Mangold were at the end of their careers. We didn't have one good young OL to build around. Yes, we had a lot of holes all over the roster, but the OL should always be a priority to protect whomever is playing QB and to be able to sustain drives. With regards to the LTs walking, they drafted Wynn last year to resolve that, but he got injured, so they traded for Trent Brown. It doesn't matter if players change every year or so when you have a great OL coach, have the ability to draft or sign the right players, and you have a QB who usually gets the ball out quickly.
Because the Patriots have used the draft to select OL for many years IS WHY they have kept their FQB upright and healthy. Seriously, you really think Maccagnan has done even a mediocre job with jets OL???? This is his 5th year and look at what we currently have. The jets currrent OL is not only one of the worst in the league, it is OLD. Not one young stud on the OL, just a bunch of old retreads and overpaid underachievers. It is what you get when you draft the likes of Ardarius Stewart , Chad Hansen, Christian Hackenberg, Devin Smith, Lo Mauldin, Nathan Shepard, Darron Lee, four defensive backs and three receivers in ONE draft (2017), etc. instead of finally getting a decent OL. Oh well, we can always resign Kelvin Beachum, Brian Winters. etc.--nobody else wants them. Feel free to respond--you can have the last word--tell us again Rome wasn't built in a day, and four years is not enough time for Mike McCagnan to realize that you need more offensive linemen per snap than any other position.
my point was that he is trying and not ignoring the o-line, not that it hasn't worked out. He took over a shit team after several shit drafts where the only talent we had was on it's last legs age-wise and wanted to rebuild and was told no, we want to win now and was forced to dump money into a ragtag group of vets so we could go 10-6 1 year and not make the playoffs lol. our true rebuild literally just started the 2018 season. to put it in perspective mac took over this team in 2015. by my count the only player we still have on the team from that time is enunwa. That is a massive turnover which shows just how bad we were as a team. and none of the players we got rid of did anything after so it wasn't like we were short on money. we just didn't have talent. now we have a team of young talent thanks to mac and sitll building. yes o-line is an issue but you don't reach for an o-line player who winds up being a bust over a jamaal adams. as far as last season goes don't you realize we spent 4 picks on a QB as that was our biggest need? If we had a QB sure we could have drafted some lineman but we gave up 3 picks in that draft alone (6th overall, and 2 2nd rounders) for darnold. Nelson would have been awful since we needed darnold. so we had literally 0 chance for any lineman taken in the 1st 2 rounds. take those off your list and it's a lot different. not to mention kolten was a huge reach (look at my grade here, i gave them a D for the pick http://forums.theganggreen.com/threads/sgb-round-1-grades-for-picks-and-trades.90491/) and he's already being moved to RT after failing at LT. a lot of options weren't really options at all. also since you point out how we did try and trade up for tunsil it shows mac does value o-line. the issue is on an overall basis, there arne't a lot of good o-line coming out of college worth taking. they are few and far between and with the high picks often much worse value then a player at a different position.
not really. lots of their o-line picked haven't worked out. they also made trades for others and failed to keep the good one's they drafted. they shuffle lineman as replaceable parts because brady gets the ball out so fast. it's honestly good coaching making their line seem better then it is. nate soldier was bad with the giants last year and they gave him a ton of money. I don't expect brown to live up to his contract either. the pats are boosted by brady/billichick
The complete rebuild started in 2017, I believe, not 2018. A minor point is that, Enunwa was not the only player still on the team. Brian Winters was drafted in 2013. Bilal Powell was on the team. Still, I and every other Jets fan know what lousy shape the roster was in when Mac was hired. Tanny pretty much left the cupboard bare, and Idzik finished the job. Are you seriously asking me if I don't realize that we spent 4 picks on Darnold last season? ROFLOL. Get a grip. I'm well aware of that, but the point is, if Mac had taken Pat Mahomes in 2017 as he should have, then he wouldn't have had to trade up last year, and would have had three extra picks last year (a 1st and 2-2nds) and a 2nd round pick this year to use of rebuilding the team. It's his poor decision making and poor eye for talent that is keeping this roster bare. If he has the cap space, any GM in the NFL can go out and sign a Bell or Mosley or Crowder. If he has the consensus BPA in the draft fall to him, any NFL GM (or fan for that matter) can make that pick. The truth is that Mac's eye for talent is bad. His priorities and decision making regarding which positions to draft and when are bad. One time trying to trade up doesn't prove squat. Your logic is an epic fail on this issue. Mac has done a good job with the cap and trades. His efforts in FA are mixed, and his drafting has been more bad than good. I was one of his biggest defenders on this site for his first 3 years, but no more. Mac should have been on the hot seat this offseason in a make or break year for him. He helped the team a lot signing Bell, Mosley and Crowder. Not signing a CB or C was a big mistake imo, and could be as bad and detrimental for the team as signing Bell, Crowder and Mosley were positives. If he doesn't make the right moves in this draft (an elite edge rushing prospect, getting a good C prospect, a CB, and an OG or TE), he needs to go.
yea 2017 my bad which means we are on offseason 3 of a complete rebuild. and right now our only holes are a couple of lineman, a CB2, and an EDGE rusher mostly. that's not that bad at all. we got our FQB and years 3-5 are going to be the best to take advantage of him being on a cheaper deal then his play. 2020 should be the year the jets can look at a playoff run which means we have 2 drafts and a free agency (although not much to spend next eyar on FA) to address those holes. we are in pretty good position right now. Yeah winters would be the 2nd one on the team. still not a good track record and neither enunwa or winters is a "stud" but more of a good player for their position. what happened to all the 1st round and 2nd round picks? lol winters was a 3rd in 2012 and enunwa was a 6th on 2014. that is a shit ton of turnover due to bad GMs in the past. powell was a nice player but was more of a good split back and not a bell cow or game changer. he was a JAG at RB that every team had one of easily. MT and Idzik did a terrible job and mac is doing good overall so cut him some slack. o-line talent as a whole in the NFL is on the decline. every year we see tons of 1st round d-line, edge rushers etc going top 10 but rarely are we seeing LTs in the 1st round and when we do it's mostly reaches in the mid round. the entire NFL has a shortage of talent on the o-line as a whole. sure we can look back in hindsight and say if we took mahomes in 2017 we would be better of now, but come on, you can do that to any GM. and we did get adams who is the QB of our defense and a top 3 player at his position in the NFL so it's not like mac whiffed on the pick. even reading this board here during the draft everyone wanted adams. nobody was asking for mahomes with the 6th pick. and the bears took trubisky over mahomes (and traded up for him) 9 teams passed on mahomes. it happens. It's nonsense to say BPA falling is easy, they fell becuase other GMs passed on them so mac could have easily did the same thing and passed on the consensius BPA. u have to give the credit for pulling the trigger becuase no matter how obvious it is to us, doens't mean that GMs don't make the wrong pick and pass on them.
