How could Sam even be expected to succeed with the lack of talent surrounding him? Good grief, Adam Gase calling plays? NO offensive line because of MacCagnan. A running game consisting of "1 yard plunge" Frank Gore or free agent bust Lev Bell. WRs like retreads Chris Hogan, J. Kearse, or maybe household names Jeff Smith Vyncent Smith, Braxton Berrios, etc. Pass catching TEs like Trevon Wesco, Daniel Brown and underachiever Chris Herndon. I think Sam held up real well considering the "talent" he had around him. As to the claim that he missed open receivers, Sam was probably so surprised that a jets receiver GOT open, he misfired because of the shock!
So if we don't take a QB this year and just one of the QBs goes on to be a star, then JD should be fired. Regardless of if its the QB we were considering. yikes
Interesting that you would listen to trade offers for the #2 overall pick. I thought you were in the "Wilson or bust" camp (nobody but him). Glad to see you have an open mind. I think the jets could still trade down at least once and probably twice from #2, pick up a boatload of extra picks, and still get a decent QB, if that is what you want (maybe Lance or Jones). But, as you know, I want them to trade down twice and still take one more look at Sam (now playing with some talent around him). I understand you think that unwise.
Not getting much for #2 overall? Say what? The last ten years teams that have traded down from the top 5 have gotten a king's ransom. And with all the hype surrounding Lawrence AND Wilson, the jets would get a fortune for Wilson/#2. Especially since Chris Simms, who clearly sees all, knows all, and tells all, has already got Wilson in the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
I wonder if JD has approached Sam's agent to see what Sam would be looking for in a 3 yr extension. $20per? $30per? No trade clause? yada yada. Even if we trade him it would be great if he was locked up to a very team friendly deal for the next 3 with little guaranteed $ and lots of incentive clauses.
It never hurts to listen to what others have to say. I do love Wilson, but also like Lance and Fields a lot. If I had all the info that JD has, I might think differently, but for certain, rolling with Sam would NEVER be a consideration, not for one second. If say Atlanta was going to offer me an incredible deal to move down two spots, and I liked all three QBs pretty equally, I'd probably take it. Lance and Jones both have the potential to be FQBs, not just "decent" QBs. I A decent QB isn't good enough. A decent QB isn't going to get you to, much less win a SB. I have zero interest in getting a "decent" QB. IMO that's a strategy for mediocrity, for a perpetual 8-8, 7-9, 9-7 record every year for 5 -10 years. No thanks. It ignores the realities of today's NFL. Getting that haul for trading down, especially twice is a pipe dream, a fairy tale. You're much smarter than that Tom. That will NOT get the Jets where we want them to be. That's Madden or some silly draft game. It's not who gets the most picks wins. It's who gets the best QB and then does the best job building around him. Even then, it takes good/great coaching and some luck. I'm sorry, but playing with Sam is truly delusional. Wake up. You're just focusing on what the Jets have done to Sam and not focusing on Sam the player and what his flaws are and always have been. You're ignoring what your eyes tell you, and choosing to focus on what the national media said about Sam 4 years ago and/or how unfair things have been for Sam, and think the Jets owe Sam something. They don't. They have paid him millions of dollars. He has had three years to fix his footwork and accuracy issues and hasn't. That's not on the team. That's solely on Sam. He's had three years to fix his inability to read Ds and his continally making bad decisions with the ball, resulting in TOs. He hasn't. Again, that's solely on Sam. Yes, the Jets have victimized Sam to some extent with poor drafting, decisions, and coaching, but he is not a victim. He has victimized himself and the team as well. There is no rational, valid reason for rolling with Sam. It is entirely too risky. It's unfortunate, but there comes a time when one has to realize that it's too late to remedy a situation, and the only thing one can do is to cut bait and move on.
There is absolutely no reason to do that. Sam has not earned a 3-year extension. Any GM that would even consider that, should be fired on the spot. Dude, you are too much.
If I am JD and I do not think any of the QBs available to me are better than Sam or have the potential to be I do not draft them. In this scenario do I keep Sam or bring in a vet? I would do both keep Sam and bring in a vet to compete for starting position. I would much rather draft our future QB . Hey, maybe JD loves Morgan and he is the starter next season.
First of all, you do not need to apologize, even if you think the idea of playing Sam is, in your words, delusional, or telling me to "wake up." I do not take anything personal, we are all jets fans, and I lose little if any sleep if someone rejects my commentary. I am frankly surprised with the namecalling and bickering that goes on here, when we all are or should be focused on the same goal. Secondly, your claim that trading down twice in round 1 is "a pipe dream, a fairy tail," is directly contrary to what Parcells DID in 1997 to rebuild the jets. Parcells DID trade down twice in round 1 and picked up several more picks in 1997 and 1998 for guys like James Farrior, Dedric Ward, Leon Johnson and Jason Ferguson, perhaps the jets best 7th round pick ever. The jets went to the AFC champ game the next year with Testaverde who was on his third team, not drafted by the jets. If Mike MacMoron was still the jets GM, I would agree with you and not trade down, since he would waste them anyway. But Douglas should be able to really rebuild the jets with the haul he would receive. Finally, your insistence that the jets MUST draft a QB in round 1 and as high as possible to win may not be accurate. Look at Demarcus Russell, Tim Couch, Jeff George, Ryan Leaf (all drafted #1 or #2). Look at Tom Brady, Russell Wilson, Drew Brees and Boomer Essiason--none of them went in round 1. Look at some the super bowl winning QBs like Jeff Hostetler, Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, not exactly household names. I do not think a team HAS to draft a QB in the top 5 to win. The last time the jets DID draft a QB in the top 5, they got the guy you complain about the most--Sam Darnold.
Drew Brees was the 32nd Pick, Trent Dilfer was drafted in round 1 and Brad Johnson is an outlier. Most Qbs that go to the superbowl have been drafted in the first round by a large margin. With that being said being drafted in the first round is no guarantee of success. Hostetler, Johnson, Dilfer where journeymen on a stacked team we do not have a stacked team. The game has also changed the rules have made QB more important than ever. Draft one when you can if you think he is the guy.
Drew Brees WAS drafted in round 2. You can look it up. I said he was not taken in the first round, so curious as to what your point is with him. When you said "we do not have a stacked team," thanks for making my point. My point all along has been and continues to be WE DON'T have much talent on this roster-- this year IS the time to rectify that. Douglas can trade down from #2 twice, and then combined with Seattle's picks we are in a great position in 2021 and 2022 to acquire some real talent after years of MacCagnan buffoonery. I have said that even with a trade down or two we probably could still get Lance or Jones if we MUST have a first round QB this year. You must be in the camp that wants Wilson at #2 and that's fine.
Nobody sets out to draft just a decent QB. Everyone wants a great QB, but that is easier said than done. However, your point I quoted is incorrect. Just look at the starting QBs for the last 4 SBs. Brady vs Mahomes Garappalo vs Mahomes Brady vs Geoff Brady vs Foles Brady was basically decent last season, as was Garrappalo the season before. Geoff and Foles are on the low end of decent. A just decent QB made the SB every year, and their record was 2-2. (You could even argue Brady was only decent in the Rams SB year.) Because what matters far more then how good the QB is, is how good the overall roster is. Great teams win SBs, not great QBs.
There is really no such thing as a stacked team in the NFL anymore is my point. Without great QB play you are not making a run. Mediocre QB play gets you 8-8 or or an early exit from the playoffs. Not about getting a first round QB but getting the QB you think will be a franchise QB. We have plenty of picks and money to rebuild the roster without trading back.
That is simply untrue. The Bucs were majorly stacked last season. Brady was barely above average, and was the biggest farce of a SB MVP in SB history.
I'm glad that you didn't take it personally, because it wasn't meant that way. We just strongly disagree, and I think you're misguided in the way you see things, but I respect you, think you're a really good guy, and would be happy to sit down and have a brew with you. Yes, Parcells traded down twice, but that doesn't mean that Douglas will. Also, Parcells shouldn't have traded down twice. He missed out on two HOF LTs doing so. How often does that (trading down twice in the 1st round) happen in reality? I'll bet you can name the number of times that's happened since 2000 on one hand, if it has even happened at all. I can't think of a single time. I googled it and couldn't find anything. Could it happen? Certainly, as almost anything is possible, but that doesn't mean that it's even remotely likely. It's a different era in the NFL. QB has become more important and scouting has evolved. There are better, more in-depth scouting reports, background checks of character, and analytics to help scouts and GMs. There is more video availble. Still, Wilson could fail to become a FQB, as could Lawrence or any other QB taken in any draft. You're right that QBs don't have to be taken in the top 5 to win, but taking a QB early gives them a better chance to win, because the consensus top QB prospects always go early. Sometimes scouts, GMs and teams still miss, but Wilson is no Demarcus Russell, Jeff George, Ryan Leaf or Tim Couch. Brady had the benefit of having quite possibly the greatest HC of all time. If he had had the likes of Rich Kotite, Herm Edwards, Eric Mangini, Rex Ryan, Todd Bowles, and Adam Gase as HC, we'd probably have never heard of him. I had seen Russell Wilson play both at NC State and at Wisconsin. I knew he was a very good, if not great, QB prospect and would most likely be very good in the NFL. Still, he has surprised me. He fell to the 3rd round because of the bias against short QBs, and probably against a QB who had played at NC State and Wisconsin, neither of which is exactly a QB factory, although NC State did produce Phillip Rivers and Mike Glennon. Drew Brees was probably also discriminated against because of his short stature, and again, the NFL was different when he was drafted. It was still more of a rushing league, and RBs were still routinely being drafted in the 1st round. Boomer Esiason was not that good. He made one SB and that was it. His career completion percentage was 57.04 and his career passer rating was 81.1. In 14 seasons in the NFL, he threw only 247 TDs to 184 interceptions. He averaged a little over 13 interceptions a season and only 17.64 TDs a season. When Hostetler, Johnson and Dilfer won SBs it was again, a different era in the NFL, so to compare that with now is like comparing apples and oranges. I'd be willing to bet that another scrub QB like those three rarely ever win another SB, unless the game changes again and they change the rules to favor the pass defense, or the league goes back to being primarily a rushing league. Passing has just become too important. Maybe you're willing to accept mediocrity and maybe have a chance to get to and win a SB once in the next 20 years, but I'm not. I want an elite QB prospect that gives us an excellent chance of going deep in the playoffs every year, and thus a chance to get to and win multiple SBs. Just because they took Sam Darnold in the top 5, that doesn't mean that the Jets should never take another QB in the top 5. That the same kind of logical fallacy/failure as never drafting an Ohio St. QB because they've never produced one who succeeded in the NFL. Don't forget that Mac McDumbass traded up not even knowing which QB he would get. He wanted Baker Mayfield. He thought that there were only likely 2 FQBs in the draft: Mayfield and Darnold. He found out that the Giants were sold on Saquon Barkley, so he knew that he'd get one of those two QBs at #3. He ignored the fact that Sam had a TO problem, a footwork and accuracy problem, and a decision making problem. I don't know what USC's offense was or if Sam had a problem with reading Ds at that point or not. Then he committed the worst mistakes by drafting defense and handing out big ridiculous contracts to old defensive players like Trumaine Johnson, rather than building the OL and skill position players around Darnold, and he evidently didn't urge the Johnsons to hire a veteran HC who had proven experience working with rookie QBs, or an offensive HC who would focus on helping Sam develop, and then he let them hire Adam Gase for Pete's sake. Sam may never have been as good as his hype anyway, but Mac ensured that Sam would never reach his potential with his decisions and moves. That is why we are where are, not the fact that we took a QB in the top 5. If Mac hadn't failed so miserably with the offensive skill players that he did draft, Sam would have had a chance. If Sam can even come close to reaching his potential, it's probably going to take 2-3 years, not one offseason, and even then, he's going to need the right CS who is patient, and who has a very good team around him. The Jets are not in position to do that. It would be insane to pick up his 5th year option or extend him based on the way he has already played and his inability to stay healthy. Most likely, he needs to sit this season anyway, rather than play, and there's no way the Jets can do that without extending him. They have an opportunity to re-set the QB cap to a low figure. They have an opportunity to get a draft pick for Sam and start anew with a new QB to go with their new CS. That is the wisest, least risky thing that they can do moving forward. I also need to add that while I love Wilson's potential, if JD likes Fields, Lance, or even Jones better, I'll be disappointed, but will trust him until it is proven that he was wrong, so the QB doesn't have to come in the top 5, although that gives him the best chance of getting the one he wants and is the least risky. He could have lost Mims last year trading down and was lucky not to have. IMO he should not take that risk with our future QB if he sees that QB as being one of Wilson or Fields, and maybe even Lance. Again, trading down, even to #4 is just too risky. Carolina or another team could trade up with Miami at #3 and take the QB JD wants and believes. The only way he should trade back and take a QB is if he either has several ranked about dead even, or if he actually likes Jones or Mond better than Wilson, Fields and Lance. I might even could be convinced to go along with it if JD traded down twice and took Kellen Mond. The important thing to me is getting a new QB prospect this year. This is the time to do it, and I believe with my whole being that Sam is not, and never will be the answer at QB for the Jets. JD has a lot of pressure on him. He has to get this right. If he takes the wrong QB, that QB proves to be a bust or only meh, and one or more of the others go on to become stars, he probably won't have the opportunity to draft another QB. If he trades down or stays put and takes a position player and doesn't take a QB, and one or more of the QBs go on to become FQBs, he probably won't get the chance to draft another QB, either.
