^what did Brady do with Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney other than not win a Super Bowl? Brady threw the game ending INT in 06 I suppose that was not his fault either.
yep, it's BS. he's clearly been great in postseason, it's those darn WRs, OL, RBs, D's, coaches that have held him back:rofl: what draft was Danny Amendola a 1st rd pick? was this the UFL draft or the CFL draft? in the NFl he wasn't drafted and he was banged up most of the year this year. Stokely won a SB w/o Peyton Addai was a good RB Collie was good before all the concussions those are all spare part guys, no big name guys he relied on w/ the possible exception of Addai who along w/ Dominic Rhodes was a huge reason why Peyton won a SB.
he brought that team to a conf title game, Manning has only been to 3 w/ the incredible talent he has had. Brady had to go 80 yds for a TD w/ :54 secs left, that wasn't like trailing by 7 in the 4th going in for a possible game tying score but instead watching Peyton throw a pick 6 to cost his team the SB.
Yeah Brady gets excuses and Manning doesn't. We know how it goes with u. Can't wait for you to make excuses for him this time around. Hopefully Peyton hoists the VLT just to piss u off.
Actually I have given Brady his blame but show me when he has been shut out? show me when he has led his O to 3 pts? show me when he has thrown an INT for a TD to lose a SB? show me EIGHT one and dones?
Show me when he's had to face Belichick in the tournament? Show me where he has won a title without a HOF stacked D to compliment him? Show me where Brady took two different coaching staffs to the SB?
You do know that in postseason peyton's Ds have allowed less points per game than those "great" Belichick D's, right? You do know Belichick was a complete failure as a HC both in Cle and in NE before Brady rescued him, right? You do know Belichick had ONE playoff win TOTAL in 6 years coaching before Brady, right? you also know that Dungy made a title game w/o Peyton, right?
David Givens, David Patten, Julian Edelman...Brady has made a career on throwing to no-names. If you want to differentiate Manning from Brady, I suggest not using the weapons argument. You will be destroyed. This year is a perfect example.
Brady didn't start putting up these "all-world" numbers until he got guys like Moss, Welker, Gronk and Hernandez though. In no way shape or form am I saying Brady is no good. I think Manning has had less to work with. I think Manning has 3 rings with Bruschi, Vrabel, Harrison, McGinest, Seymour, Law, Belichick, etc. Just my opinion. We'll see how the rest of their careers play out.
Dungy, Bob Sanders, Robert Mathis, Dwight Freeney, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Joseph Addai.
It's not about #s, it's about WINNING. w/ less talent he has more SB apps and wins. reg season win %: Brady: 148-43, 77% Manning: 167-73, 70% postseason win %: Brady: 71% Manning: 45% how many SBs did those defensive players w/ Belichick win w/o Brady? they were 5-11 the year before and started 0-2 in 2001 before Brady stepped in and they magically went 11-3 the rest of the reg season en route to the SB. Manning's D's have allowed LESS points in postseason per game.
NE never had anyone like Mathis & Freeney to rush the passer, they had some really good guys but 2 premiere pass rushers at the same time attacking from both sides?
Here's one. You didn't discuss it and it existed. Step up these arguments, stop acting like you didn't watch these playoff games. This is pointless if you can't judge different players fairly. And oh does a D blowing a late lead count only if a 80 yard TD drive preceded it, because that's what you just implied considering there was a 7 point lead with 1:04 left and 2 point lead with <1 minute left you didn't mention.
It is about numbers, look what happens when we take numbers out of your argument. It becomes useless, and that's not me being a jerk, it's a fact. Half of it has to be redacted since "it's not about numbers". It is about numbers and trying to figure out which are important and non important to what we are discussing. You clearly put a very heavy emphasis on playoff wins and Super Bowls where I don't have the same emphasis on those when talking about quarterbacks. They play a part for me, but they aren't the main point for me. If they were main points, it means I would have to concede to Flacco and Eli being some all time great QBs which I do NOT believe so I don't have a heavy emphasis on them for individuals. The thing that bothers me is the letting the name on the jersey changing the opinion on what the player did. You clearly did it because you believed no dropped passes existed for Peyton Manning in the playoffs. And 5 other reasons I listed before. Also, if it's not about number and it's about winning, I guess you also believe the team that wins the SB is the best team that year in the NFL and in part that QB is the best QB that year? EDIT: And I'm not saying I'm above this. I bet I do it all the time especially in the NBA playoff thread but I'm trying to get better. I tried to downplay Lebron for a year to two and realized how crazy I was. Once I turned off my bias and just watched him, it really lets me appreciate how good he is at basketball. Same thing happened with me and Nadal. I don't like how Nadal plays compared to Federer, but I remind myself to just watch how he plays without worrying about his name, and wow it really makes watching sports more enjoyable.
Junc doesn't even care that Brady [and the Pats] choked on 18 point lead against Manning at one point - during playoff, of all possible situations. You are wasting your time here. [18 point choke is the largest choke in conference game history if I didn't tell you just yet.] And yes. YES. Brady threw a game-sealing INT during that game too. [But junc ignores these facts. You are wasting your time here.] In Junc's rhetoric: It is the fault of the defense that they choked on 18 point lead.
That was one of the craziest playoff games in recent memory. It just bothers me when people purposely misconstrue stuff. What he did with Peyton's playoff losses (mind you I already have a problem taking someones huge career and nailing it down to 20-30 games) is exactly what the original poster, albeit with less detail, did to Tom Brady. Both of them just blamed them for everything bad, credited the remaining team for anything good, and then said because of this QB x is bad. It's silly and it's not even about Peyton Manning, it's about the OP doing it, me disagreeing with it, and then Junc doing the same exact thing the OP did with a different player. It really leads me to think some people actually believe from 2001-2004 Tom Brady was a better QB than he was from 2005-2012. If people want to believe that, I'm shocked, because the logic the OP and Junc are using point to that belief which at best is misleading and at worst wrong.
And when they were historically great and had awesome talent, he lost in 2007 SB. It's really about the team and how they perform in the playoffs together. To pin all the blame or most of the credit on just the QB takes out what makes playoff football so much fun to watch, the team effort it takes to beat high level competition.
