Honestly, it's a bit ridiculous that my argument was warped to mean something it didn't originally intend. I was pretty sure I was clear that I was making a distinction between what Belichick did, which would commonly be referred to as "cheating" and what we're being accused of, which would commonly be referred to as "breaking the rules". My point is that violating rules is cheating, whether you admit that or not. Sure, there are some fouls that are far worse than others. Obviously, what we're being accused of doesn't hold a candle to what Belichick's been found guilty of. It doesn't make what we're being accused of any more legal. The penalties are just different. And I'm consistent with myself and prior behavior. Not in this forum, since I've never really discussed individual calls in here (with the exception of last year's Baker TD.) However, in the baseball forum, I've pointed out when my beloved Yankees were the beneficiaries of poor calls. To be quite honest with you, I wouldn't know the majority of the time if we or our opponents were holding on most plays. I don't pay that much attention to the lines once the play starts. Obviously, more holding occurs than will ever be called. However, advocating holding simply "because you can get away with it" is wrong. You may as well condone any behavior as long as it goes without notice. Again, holding is "breaking the rule" while videotaping signals is blatant "cheating". However, both are violations of rules, and both are subject to penalty when caught. They're the same thing, just different severity.
okay, then the severity of this rule breakage is insignifcant, and the League is probably laughing at the complaint.
The problem I have with your take is that you're calling an in game foul cheating, then trying to draw a parallel to what the Pats did because they're both cheating in your book. I don't believe committing an in game foul is cheating and I never will. Did we both break a rule? Sure, but one is cheating and one is not. I believe it's smart football to take advantage of what the refs will let you get away with. So long as the ref is calling it the same both ways, I don't see it as cheating.
The Ravens are the league leaders in penalties I believe and Billick is one step behind "Hermy" when it comes to his love for the press and his ability to babble on and on and on..He is more of a clown then a serious NFL head coach...end the thread.
Billick is an idiot...he allowed the Jets to get back into the game by calling passing plays instead of running out the clock. I don't think it's illegal to shout at the offensive line. That's why teams have quick counts and things like that. Billick is just a puss.
EXACTLY... this is some kind of asshole move by billick. i mean theres how many guys on a ref crew? wouldnt one of these guys heard this and called a penalty or at the very least issue a warning to the players and/or the coaches? this seems like BS to me...i dont know b/c i wasnt there, but this seems like complaining for the sake of hearing yourself speak or just comming up with a quote for the papers.
I think this week, we should illegally simulate an opposing player. Stick a Fathead of Chris Chambers out there when we're on D for Trent Green to throw to. Easy pick every time.
Somehow i dont see Nick Saban coming out this week and telling the media... "The jets did a very very nice job of illegally hosting Wayne Chrebet day"
I'm not saying that the league gives a damn at all about the complaint, rather that at most, they'll tell the refs that they should pay attention to the behavior going forward. Right, they are both cheating in my book. Both are breaking rules, though one is obviously far more severe than the other. What then, is your definition of cheating? You agree that we both broke a rule. If that's not cheating, then what exactly is? I'm not arguing that there is a clear difference in severity between barking our signals during a game and videotaping coaches sending in signals. I'm simply arguing that throwing stones in glass houses is generally regarded as dangerous behavior, and when a window breaks, you have no one to blame but yourself. What is your argument though? To me, it sounds like "well, it's okay because we did it, not them". Or would you have no problem if they were doing it to us?
If the other team did it, I would be upset at the refs for not calling it. I would not call the team cheaters. I think anything that can normally be called a foul by the refs during the game that a team/player violates is not cheating. If you can find a way to get away with breaking rules within the game, on the field, good for you. You see experienced d-backs get away with illegal contact a lot because they know how to do it without getting called.You see experienced receivers get away with push offs a lot because they know how to do it without getting called. The list goes on. This is just smart football IMO. When you're doing something against the rules that the referees can neither penalize you for or catch you, you're cheating. It's a fine line, and it's hard for me to articulate, but there is definitely a difference.
You find it hard to articulate because you can't defend it. It's cheating. Illegal contact is illegal contact. It's gaining an advantage over your opponent by breaking the rule, therefore, cheating. I never said I'd sit there screaming at the tv calling people cheaters for things like holding. Of course not. It's not a huge crime, and that's why it's got a free set of downs as its big punishment, not a first round draft pick. Illegal contact on a play is petty larceny. What the Jets are being accused of is probably in the area of theft. What Belichick did was murder. All crimes, but obviously, each one is progressively worse than the one previous. But defending it, if it's in fact true, is no different than Pats fans here last week saying "everyone does it, so it's not a big deal".
OMFG - so is it cheating if you get penalized for it? And if so isn't every team in the NFL cheating every week? c'mon man.
be as technical as you want but I disagree. What the Jets did is something even High Schoolers do. If the refs suck thats tough shit. Ive been on both ends of the spectrum in that case. Either way, its not our fault the o-line is getting distracted. This is the players taking the game in their own hands and bending the rules. This isnt an organization going out of its way to blatantly break rules stated in a league memo. If the league wishes to punish us, then whatever its not my sport. But in all reality the severity of this "infraction" is a joke. If anything these Refs should be shit upon for not keeping things "fair" if they thought this was "cheating" Then again the last couple years its become appearant. The NFL does all it can to cover its ass when it comes to ref fuck ups.
Can't be two faced. If the Jets are cheating and get caught, they get what they deserve. Same as the Pats did. But it does sound like BB is crying. Mangini never went to the media with it.
I think your off on this one! Penalties are part of the game and what belly did was outside of the active game. Are they both against the rules? yes, but it is hard to equate them. My feeling is that Bilick is making a big statement about this because the Jets are the team who caught Belly and he is standing up for Belly. I think that, In his opinion Mangini should never have told about Belly's tactics and thus break the code of head coaches. edit: Also, if two of 3 of these false starts happend in the first half, He knew that we were doing it. why not tell the ref to look for it in the second half? because He kept it to give it more weight after the game.
Its funny tho. you watch games on TV and you hear the defense do it constantly. I bet if you go back and check the game the ravens defense is yelling out calls too.. Its part of the game and should in no way be compared to the Belicheat stuff
See, you guys are arguing against me, but you're not even disputing my points. The focus was changed from the accusation that we are calling out signals to all other manner of penalty by persons other than myself. I spoke about them simply because others brought them up first. My point is that all infractions, whether it is holding, barking out signals, or taping opposing coaches, are all illegal, transgressing against the rules, and therefore are all forms of cheating. At no point did I ever say that a holding has the same gravity as videotaping signs. Quite the contrary. Holding is punishable on the field of play, and the videotaping is enforcable by the league, as both should be. They have distinct degrees of gravity on the overall outcome of a game, of course they should be penalized differently, just as an incident of shoplifting is totally different than an execution-style murder. Now either you all want to simply argue with me just because you can, or you're just lying to yourselves. ANY breaking, bending, ignoring, or otherwise tampering with an established rule is cheating. (The only true difference is a play on the field that is accidental, and results in a penalty, but it still broke the rules. The intent is missing, and that's the sole difference.) It's the difference between a "lie" and a "white lie". There is no difference. They're both lies. Is one potentially far more devastating than the other? Of course. However, it still doesn't change the fact that both are the result of not telling the truth, and therefore are lies by their very definition. I've also not accused the Jets of being guilty here. It's a silly accusation, and I strongly doubt we even did what is allegated. However, if we did, we deserve punishment. More than likely, that punishment would come at a future date, when we did it again. As I said, I'm sure Goodell has instructed the officials to pay attention in the future for this behavior. Blaming the refs for not making the call is ridiculous. If someone cheats you at poker, but no one calls him on it, did he still cheat? So again, I'm going to call all of you to the carpet, and I want to hear your definition of cheating.
