Try everybody that isn't a New England fan. Even my Girlfriend who isn't a football fan wants to know how this is going to work out now that N.E.* "got caught cheating."
Goodell is such a punk. (to Walsh) Uhhhh, come in and tell us what you know. Oh, and bring ALL the tapes. Did you make any copies? Bring those too. Did you show them to anyone yet? No? Good. It's the way he acts that got Spector in on this in the first place.
I completely agree that people can and should discuss it. The problem is, you can't have a reasonable discussion when everyone is operating form the presumption of "cheating", when it was a matter of taping signals that are in clear view to everyone anyway, and every team, for example, sends scouts to watch teams workouts 2 weeks ahead of playing them, and those scouts take detailed notes of the defensive signals being used. Every team tries to decipher the other's signals, and there are a variety of ways in which it is done.... So, first off, the level of the infraction is completely misunderstood, sabotaging any meaningful discussion to begin with. Furthermore, people seem to be wanting to believe that the Walsh/Specter thing is going to lead to some kind of further punishments or something. It won't. The commish levied punishment according to the rules of the league. So the idea that Specter will be able to reveal some sort of cheating and coverup is a false hope....stealing signs IS NOT AGAINST THE NFL RULES. Every team is free to steal signs by whatever means they can, within guidelines. Until people can accept that fact, any meaningful discussion is impossible. So, good luck with pinning your hopes on this stuff. It will all amount to nothing.
I think the fine was for what occurred on 9/9/07. Here, we're talking about stuff from 02. Specifically, the Rams walkthrough. In fact, that's what Walsh says he has. Beilichick even went as far as to issue a statement that he never told Walsh to tape the Rams. Goodell is thinking like you. He just wants it to go away. Unfortunately, his behavior regarding the Jets incident was so over the top in that it was an obvious coverup, that he has brought the US Senate into the mix. So if Walsh produces a tape of a Rams walkthrough, the ball is in Goodells court. Him establishing himself early as a law and order guy with the Pacman and other incidents will not bode well for Beilchick if Walsh does have a Rams walkthrough tape.
Not to me.:up: Gator makes a good point. I think the original Spygate scenario is finished and over. The only wildcard I can see here is Walsh. Frankly, I am taking a wait and see approach here. Walsh was offered immunity if he speaks the truth, blah, blah, blah...and declined. He wants unconditional protection. I find that to be suspicious.....but I am willing to hear him out and see what he produces before I have any meaningful opinion on that....because it's all just speculation now...any opinion offered by anyone now is just bias, and has no real value, because there needs to be more information here. Although, I would be interested to hear why anyone would bother to film a walkthrough........I mean, it's a walkthrough.....unless you're trying to pick up soundbites of players in a casual setting, it's beyond me.
Attempting to steal signs amounts to trying to gain a competitive advantage. This has and will always go on. How the Patriots went about it is not "within the guidelines" to use your words. Furthermore, Bellichicks/Pats penalty was not "according to the rules of the league." There were no "rules of the league" pertaining to fines/punishment for video-aided cheating. Goodell, just as in the Pacman situation, made his own rule. As mentioned, all of that was Spygate I to use the common terminology. Videotaping walkthroughs would not be considered "stealing signs" as it is more about knowing what plays and out of what formation a team would likely call during the game. This is Spygate II. And, it is absolutely relevant, illegal and can have an impact in a three-point game. Ultimately, I would still be shocked if any further punishment is levied or if Patriots can be officially tagged cheaters during their SB years/games. It will ultimately be like Roger Clemens/Barry Bonds. You know something shady was going on, but there is no definitive proof. People that want to believe they were cheaters will assume it is fact and poeple who don't want to believe they are cheaters will admit that something may have gone on, but we can't be sure. Honestly, I just want this all to go away as this will always be a "what if" game. Fans of the Rams won't be able to celebrate another title as its happening. Bellichick will still be considered a terrific head coach and remain quite wealthy. Brady will still be considered one of, if not the best, QB of all time and date supermodels. And, the NFL will go on, fans will still watch and buy merchandise.
I agree almost 100% with this post.....with the minor point that I doubt a tape of a walkthrough, whether it occured or not, would help prepare for a team. I think game film would offer a lot more. In walkthroughs, there is press and visitors quite often, there is nothing secretive that happens...it's very informal...checking field conditions, walking out plays in casual clothes, sometimes friends and family around and reporters.
But see, that explains why YOU wouldn't do it. Not why it wouldn't help your hero, who, after all, is a genius, and has more wits at his disposal. Honestly, this is like the third stage of denial here, first: "everybody does it;" second "Mangini is a rat for exposing it;" and third "no harm, no foul, it didn't affect the game anyway." You have no idea whether it affected the game(s). Neither do we. And since whatever evidence the league gathered was both destroyed and underreported until the threat of a Congressional investigation, forgive me for thinking the worst. Like any conspiracy theory, Spygate wraps up a lot of loose ends that are otherwise unaccounted for: like how a coach who was run out of Cleveland became comparable to Lombardi; like how a 6th round draft pick who barely started in college became the next Joe Montana; how the Rams had to make up red-zone plays on the sideline during the SB; the need to obliterate opponents early in this season, etc. I mean, sure its possible that the guy really is a genius who just flourished at the right time for you, and some idiot savant dude named Ernie that follows him everywhere secretly diagnoses all the opposing tendencies with rain man- like precision that no other team can match. That's just as plausible.
The Rams went through their preferred Red Zone plays in the exact formation during the walk-through, so it definitely would provide an advantage. Many players have come out and said having a tape of the walk-through would most certainly help.
Definitely, I know from personal experience because we had a walkthrough the day before my wedding. Then the next day when we did it for real it was exactly the same, which sucked because everyone knew where I was gonna be at every second and I ended up married. See, I was hoping to get lost and everyone was going to go..."Where's Gator, where's Gator". Oh well. Did I mention today that the Pats suck, that they choked, and that they are miserable cheaters? Just in case any Pats trolls are lurking I think this should be mentioned.
IIRC, the Rams made it into the redzone exactly one time during the game and scored a TD on a Kurt Wurner qb sneek. So with a different commissioner during SB 36 and no memos sent forth to the Pats, how is what they did even illegal at all then?
Update: http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2008/02/18/belichick_and_pioli_speak_out/ Belichick and Pioli speak out By Mike Reiss Globe Staff / February 18, 2008 I would be absolutely shocked if BB said that without knowing without a doubt that Walsh won't be able to produce the alleged walkthrough tape.
And so the Patriots' smear campaign of Matt Walsh truly begins. Can't wait until they pull the ol' "He was a loose cannon just taping everything he could, that's why he got canned. He was doing it all of his own volition." I doubt Belichick could pick his ex-wife out of a police lineup. Bill Belichick, the genius, misinterpreting all those rules; I wonder if this is early stage Alzheimer's... or just a corporate version of Iran-Contra. I do not recall.
Re-read my post. I was referring to baron samedi saying the pats were punished "according to the rules." My point was the punishment for video-aided cheating is/was not standardized as no one had done it before. The actual use of video equipment to steal signs was and continues to be expressly against the rules.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601079&sid=adk73TcXe6nU&refer=home "I know you are, but what am I?!"
