I don't think there any any 'detractors' that would deny he has improved his accuracy, decision time and understanding of the plays he's given. What we continue to point out is that he's starting from such a low base that it would be near impossible to of actually got worse. We're not going to shout hallelujah because he's turned dirt balls into deliveries that are actually within the catching radius of players, that he no longer holds the ball for 3 seconds before running backwards or that the OC has managed to construct a basic set of plays and limited schemes that result in sometimes moving the ball downfield. We just point out that we kinda think that this is the minimum expected of anyone wanting to play QB in the NFL. In a complete redraft where we keep the current roster intact and just pick from ALL the QBs available AND have them on a Rookie contract.....I'm not sure I'd take Zach in the top 32 given the tape he's put out there and our seemingly 'all-in' situation. My top 32 (in no order) would be Mahomes, Burrow, Herbert, Jackson, Josh Allen, Hurts, Russel Wilson, Murray, Stafford, Prescott, Carr, Goff, Rodgers, Geno, Jimmy G, Bryce Young, TLaw, Stroud, Cousins, Richardson, Tua, Fields, Love, Tyrod, Dalton, Brissett, Ridder, Darnold, Mayfield, Winston, Purdy, Minshew. After that you still have Teddy & Tannehill. Then it comes down to how you feel about Mac Jones, Heinicke, Pickett, Danny Dimes and Zach. So I'd take him somewhere between 35th and 38th.
First, there are plenty of detractors who still cite his dirt balls and running backwards as proof that he sucks, and that he can never be a decent QB. And the "impossible" claims aren't that he can't get worse, but that he can get better. The bashing of Zach has been over the top and relentless, and built on exaggeration sprinkled with a few facts/stats. And then when that fails to move anyone, the predictable resort to character assassination. Why? How does his possible success threaten you and others so much? And what do you "win" if you're right? The "I Told You So Trophy"? And of course you wouldn't even include him in the top 32. No surprise there. But I think you're ignoring the fact that GMs would take into account future potential. Since you and others have already decided that Zach little or none of that, I'm sure that wouldn't change your ranking, but it would likely be in Zach's favor with GMs. Again, Zach may ultimately fail. But if he were such a lock to do so, why would Douglas, Saleh, and Hackett be supporting him? Why wouldn't they have replaced him in the off season, or worked hard to find someone after Rodgers went down? You can say it's because of money and/or his contract, but those guys want to win. Keeping a QB who they don't think can do that flies in the face of that reality. If they didn't think they could win with him, he'd be one the bench now or gone. Finally, those of us who think Zach still has potential, are Jets fans just like you, and want what's best for the team. If that means benching Zach and trading for a Cousins, or signing a Wentz, fine. But although some of you may have more knowledge about aspects of football than some of us, it doesn't make you infallible or give you the right to engage in snarkiness instead of discussing differences civilly. But I'm not a Mod, so do what you want.
On a more positive note, the reason that there is hope for Zach lies in this report: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id...s-reveal-secret-zach-wilson-improved-accuracy 1. No more yips: During his worst moments in 2021 and 2022, quarterback Zach Wilson struggled to complete the so-called gimme passes, either short-arming or overthrowing targets on plays that most quarterbacks could execute blindfolded. His accuracy was historically poor. Wilson has improved in that area, and he did it by fixing his ... feet? The West Coast system is predicated on precise footwork, and the concepts were drilled into Wilson before the season. He spent countless hours cleaning up his sloppy footwork with offensive coordinator Nathaniel Hackett, passing-game coordinator Todd Downing and quarterbacks coach Rob Calabrese. "Every single step that we have is completely choreographed," Hackett said. "I remember Steve Young and Joe Montana would always talk about it as a choreographed dance back there, and anybody that has ever danced knows that you have to spend numerous, numerous hours working on a simple eight count just to be able to get that perfect and precise." Hackett, a dancing enthusiast who taught a hip-hop dance class in college, is starting to see positive results from Wilson. His overall completion rate has improved from 54.5% (2022) to 61.1%, while his accuracy on short passes (1-10 air yards) has jumped from 65.6% to 71.4%, according to ESPN Stats & Information research. Wilson still has a ways to go -- both rates are still below the league averages -- but at least he's trending in the right direction. Perhaps the most telling number is this: His completion percentage over expected, a metric that takes into account the difficulty of each attempt, is +2.1% -- a fraction above the league average (+1.4%). A year ago, it was a miserable minus-6.1%. In the previous 20 seasons, he ranked 74th out of 75 quarterbacks in overall completion percentage (55.2%), ahead of only JaMarcus Russell (52.1%). The strides can be traced to better footwork, according to Wilson, who said, "Your feet tell a story every single play." For a change, his story isn't a sad one. *************************************************************************************************************************************************** As even some of his detractors have pointed out since he got here, his footwork was always a problem. A few even stressed that it was the root of his problems. This article supports that theory. But it should also give hope that Zach can get better, perhaps even 180 degrees better. Certainly improved to the level pf being reliably effective. And this supplies an answer to the question of why Zach looks so much better, even though he's still making some mistakes: his footwork makes him look more stable and solid, and less like he's playing on roller skates. And it's true that if you place your feet confidently, that confidence spreads upwards to your brain. The next question is: have they drilled him sufficiently that his footwork will remain solid going forward, even under duress? Today's game may provide a glimpse into the answer.
Very well said. He was still running backwards against the Patriots dude. It’s not like it hasn’t happened in 15 games. He’s had two Gardner Minshew level games in a row. The guy you’re responding to summed it up perfectly.
The dirt balls he was throwing in year 2 are a cause of concern (detraction) as it illustrates just how far back he was in comparison to others and just how far he has to get to average. Does this team have the time to wait the number of games or years it'll take Zach to get there? Those paid to make such decisions decided we did not. As for the accusation of 'character assasination' - I don't think anyone here has accused him of abusing women, taking PEDs or taking cheapshots at other players. Some might not like his attitude but that's just a likeability issue. I prefaced my selection with the conditions of; A) We're paying them all the same rookie contract. Based on that you'd take Russel Wilson over Zach Wilson for 9M a season. I wouldn't take Russel on his current contract over Zach. B) We keep the rest of the roster. Therefore I'm less concerned about 'potential' but I want someone in the here and now who can win me games in the next 2 years (Rodgers) then someone who might be above average in 3 or 4 years. I'm not sure why you are so offended by me ranking him down in the high 30's? He's a QB2 so that places him in the top 64 where you'd hope and expect him to be. I can say its because of the money/contract as if we could of cut him for zero dollars on the cap then we would of gone out and got someone else. The fact is that he's here and already paid for. I've advocated for bringing in a proper QB2/QB1 but never have I said we should cut Zach as it matters little to us if he's QB3 this year or the next. I'm not sure what you are seeing as 'snark'? I laid out all my original points, explained my caveats and pointing out habits (such as running backwards and dirtballs) that are well documented and I didn't make a single attack on you as a poster or Zach as a person. Indeed I am attempting to have a civil discussion with someone who shares a unique point of view and I'm not the one calling for the Mods to moderate something simply because it's not what you want to hear.
"Character assassination" "Detractors" Some of the language I see from the group that blindly defends Zach Wilson. I was expecting a Tebot-style following to come from BYU, but not from posters who were already here. Are you guys Mormons or something?
I used to work for a company about 7 years ago that would label people as negative and continue that narrative until they fired them. It was often people everyone liked but they’d get that going so when there was backlash from everyone who liked them, they could fall back on the fact that the person was negative and bad for company culture. That’s kind of what the Zach truther’s remind me of.
From the same 3 posters, whom, I wouldn't be surprised if they were, BT wfan, the biggest tool on the air, and Dan Orlovsky. There seems to be a real narrative this year, in trying to convince people, of Jamarcuss Wilson's greatness! Jesus even Ray Charles could see how much , he sucks
Watching the Jags Colts game right now and Manchew doesn't see ant better than Zach. They are both undersized.
I'll tell you what it reminds me of is the behavior on a few political related arguments from the last several years. You just keep repeating your claim enough times and it "has" to be true. Well it isn't true. And it never was true. Not one of us Jets fan "wants" Zach Wilson to fail, or roots for him to do poorly. I was following the game thread while the Chiefs game was going live. It was happy times while Zach actually showed a few signs of life there unexpectedly. The problem is that the Jets paid a kazoozle for him, put all their eggs in his basket, basically have given him the keys to the franchise the last few years, and he has just flat stunk ever since he got here. Doesn't mean he's a bad kid, isn't trying, or we don't want him to do well.... he's just stunk. And when your that disappointing, that consistently, for that long, most of the fans reactions are going to reflect that.
I think the best way to sum it up is that ZW went from the worst QB in the league the last 2 seasons to somewhere in the bottom 1/3
It wasn't a great game but I think the o-line trolled hard a few times on those 3rd down. Also that penalty that offset the offsides was a killer. I honestly thought the Jets were going to get a TD on that drive. So a few of those drives were blown up by things that didn't have to do with ZW. There was stupid stuff like that sack but again the o-line didn't help much there either. No turnovers though was superb. He basically had to play a clean game for us to win and he did.
Yea that’s what he did today…threw a 2pt conversion. It was a good throw, no question, and the Jets won.
Back to the thread topic... Seems to me, as I said last week, that Zach has raised his floor. To judge Zach against himself, he has turned a corner... he now looks like an NFL QB over 3 games. If you notice, I don't get into the extraneous nonsense the usual suspects post, as my only concern is whether Zach is improving. His footwork, accuracy, yip quotient, reading the field, etc has improved. The only question is whether he'll take another big step forward, & if the CS's football philosophy, will allow him to take a big step? Every once in a while, they'll call an aggressive play, but there's no consistency to aggressive (winning) play-calling. When something works, inexplicably, they slow down the offense & stall. The CS seems to be locked into a no-mistakes, keep it close mindset, & hope for a nice ending like today. Again, I'd like to see Hackett go fast, & stay fast. Start a game no huddle. Move the pocket consistently. For now, that's how Zach gets into a rhythm. That's how the O gets a rhythm. There was one play today, where Zach did play-action, then nonchalantly flipped it to Breece, behind the LOS, & Breece took it for (I think) 9 yards. It was beautiful. Then, inexplicably, never again. It really is like when something works, ignore it. I hate watching games on Fox, their announcers & analysts are just so bad, & get in the way of the game. .
No NFL teams go no huddle unless the clock is a factor. It’s silly to request it. Every QB in the league looks better in that scenario too.
Well, that game wasn't sexy, but he managed to help keep the team in the game. No costly turnovers. I had to listen to the second half on Philly radio which was brutal but they were complimenting Wilson on his toughness and proving everyone wrong that he's not a bust. High praise from those people. Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk
