Agony of Victory--Mike Vaccaro, NY Post

How about "Now we have to wait another 40 years !"

 

^Hey, every 40 years, like clockwork

 

Well, I certainly did read your post and I read it rather carefully. Everything I wrote was a direct response to something that you wrote, and if you didn't write it, then I didn't respond to it.

"I was instead making two arguments - yes, there are teams with worse records, but they don't generate much fan interest. The Jets do reasonably well since they succeed in getting the hopes of the fans up, only to dash them. The second point was that there is definitely objective evidence of the Jets coming out of long mediocre periods only to fail to go the distance in frustrating fashion, the examples being the Tarp Game and the 98 loss in Denver, followed by two different kinds of excrutiating decline."

First of all, there are several historically inept teams that generate PLENTY of fan interest. The Detriot Lions for instance, the example we both seem to keep coming back to, have a HUGE fanbase. They are one of the oldest franchises in the history of professional sports, as they were founded in 1927. They won 4 NFL championships through 1957, and since then, have only managed to qualify for the playoffs a meager 9 times, and to make matters worse, have only ONE lousy playoff win in those 9 playoff appearances. The Lions are huge in Detroit and have a tremendous base of remarkably loyal fans. By the way, even if they didn't generate much fan interest (and they undoubtedly do), I don't think it would be particularly relevant to our discussion, since their fans are assuredly frustrated and fed up with the team and their epic losing, whether they are 20 or 2,000,000 strong.

Now, as for the suggestion that other "historically inept" teams don't get their fans' hopes up and then proceed to crush them in tragic fashion, in the very same manner in which the Jets have in the past, all I can do is point out the obvious: It simply isn't true. Let's again look at the Detroit Lions as a prime example that epitomizes what every struggling fanbase experiences. Think of the Barry Sanders years. The Lions made the playoffs 6 times (91, 93, 94, 95, 97, and 99) with one of the most electrifying players in the history of the sport lining up in their backfield. In that time period they managed to only win ONE lousy playoff game (Still their only playoff win since 1957), and with it, they managed to clinch a berth in the 1991 NFC championship game, where they proceeded to get embarrassed on national TV, 41-10. You don't think that crushed their loyal fans? Heck, let's look at last season for crying out loud! They started last year at 6-2 and in first place in the NFC North, displaying one of the highest scoring offenses in the NFL. They then proceeded to lose 7 out of their last 8 games and finish 7-9 and out of the playoffs, yet again. You don't think the Lions' tremendous start got their fans' hopes up? You don't think their fans were crushed by their collapse ? Of course they were.

My main point here is that it is a completely natural, human condition for Jet fans to have a self-centered, egocentric outlook on Jet history and their perceived unsurpassed ineptitude. The "woe is me" perception of the Jets and their fans is something that is romanticized in the media and is something that Jet fans naturally embrace. We are all drama queens at heart. We all want to be perceived as victims. We all want to be thought of as unfortunate and unlucky. We all want to be the underdogs who people feel sorry for and root for. It's natural. It's human. The bottom line is, when the history of the NY Jets is looked at objectively, and WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF, the past success of the other 31 NFL franchises, it becomes abundantly clear that there are many fanbases with FAR more too complain about than the fan base of the NY Jets.

As for other memorable wins compared with the Monday night Miracle, we'll just have to agree to disagree because, in my eyes, there were several more memorable and/or momentous wins than the Monday Night Miracle in the last 15-20 years of Jets football. I consider all the games I mentioned, along with, probably 2 or 3 others as being more memorable and enjoyable to me. These would include all the playoff wins (Jacksonville 1998, Indianapolis 2002, and San Diego 2004) and BOTH the Buffalo game in 1998 (which clinched our first division title since 1969) and the Green Bay game in 2002 (which also clinched the division for us and eliminated the Pats from the playoffs.) By the way, we totally outplayed the Chargers in the San Diego playoff game in 2002. They didn't give the game away. We had the game won as we stopped them on 4th and goal with the game on the line and Eric Barton committed one of the dumbest penalties in Jet history to give them another shot. We ended up winning in overtime after they missed a medium range field goal, however, we definately outplayed them and deserved to win. Also, I don't see how any playoff win wouldn't automatically be ahead of the Monday night miracle, considering that we started 6-1 that year and then proceeded to choke down the stretch and finish 9-7 to miss the playoffs by one game. (Obviously, rating wins using terms like "memorable" is subjective and you are entitled to your opinion just as I'm entitled to mine)


Finally, as I said in my last post, I completely agree with you about the Jets having to share the local spotlight with the historically more successful Giants as being a big factor contributing to the Jet fan's negativity.

 

Actually, yeah. Kind of. Or really, put more accurately, "The Jets' history kind of sucks but it's no where NEAR the worst. There are many franchises with much darker pasts and with much more to complain about." Something like that. Or, if you like rhetorical summations, something like, "How would you like to be a Saints, Cardinals, Lions, Falcons, Browns, or Bengals fan?" (Btw, there are other teams whom, I would argue, you could easily throw in that sentence, but you get the point)

 

I went to my first Professional baseball game in 1964 with my Uncle and became a fan of the "Amazing Mets? back in the day their inept play was actually cherished. My family and extended family was made up of die hard Brooklyn Dodger fans on one hand and die Hard NY Giants fans on the other side. Both sides cherished having National league baseball back in NY and the terrible play was not just tolerated it was embraced. After awhile and a couple of great seasons mediocre play became less charming. The near misses became almost painful to watch and the last couple of season while no where near the worst in this franchises history has been outright painful.

Being a loveable loser is something a city can get behind. Mediocrity and knocking on the door and never seeing it open can eat at the die hard fan.

I always say there is no such thing as SOJ each season is its own debacle that stands on its own separate and apart. It?s the passage of time and the inability to get the door to open after knocking on it so many times that is the SOJ. As fans we love and as jilted lovers we have mechanisms to deal with the pain.

 

Nice to see a thought-provoking observation here. I totally agree.

 

This is where Vaccaro has complete lost his mind along with our recently banned poster and some of the others. For most of us the SOJ, the duck and cover is an inside joke a nod and a wink it isn't a badge of honor or a lament it is exactly the opposite of that. Vaccaro doesn't get it he is writing this article for people who put mayonaise on corn beef sandwiches between two slices of white bread. He doesn't get it. The article in a word shows a sports writer who doesn't have a clue about his audience.

 

I think it's more like she starts with a hand job, but she stop before you're done and you have to finish yourself off. Not nearly as satisfying as if she did it the right way start to finish.... hmy: I'll take the win and I'm happy to get it, but I wish it was finished as well as it started. Struggling at the end took a lot of the satisfaction out of it. Just saying it could of been a lot better.

The article sucked and so does Peter King. Vaccaro doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

The reason you don't 'see' the fans of other teams act like this is because it's not a media theme. All teams have good and bad fans. The Jets just have a rep for bad ones because of the way the media covers it. Look at the draft for example. They run the same BS clips of Jet fans booing every year. I've been to several drafts and they always focus on the same group of schmucks. One of those guys isn't even a real Jets fan. he just goes to all the 'free' events.... hmy: I think your anti-darksider crusade is a bit silly. You're seeing darksiders where there are none....