you're right, but what I said doesn't negate the possibilty that the Jets aggressively targeted multiple players, for the same slot -- around 30, or for different slots, say if they tried to get up to 15 for Flacco and to 30 for Keller. each one would have its logic. but there's only one payoff.
Spot on, Professor. Lucky for you, most of us have boring jobs and have the opportunity to read your post.
This is not an essay...it's a full blown dissertation. I agree with your point. Keller will be the catalyst that will greatly expand the capabilities of the offense and it will trigger mismatches against any defense (base, nickel or otherwise) unless the opposing team as a defender that can match Keller's size and speed. Very few can. Against a base defense, Keller will out-manuever the LB's. This will force the safties to play close to the box. If so, Coles and Cotcherry (C&C) will have a field day. Against a nickel package, Keller will stomp on a DB. With less defensive mass in the box, particularly at the point-of-attack, TJ & LW will run you ragged. Unless you have an Ed Reed or a Brian Urlacher, you're going to be losing this battle more often than not. This is not just a "good" pick, IT"S A GREAT PICK.
I agreed with a point made by Vader (that the FO threw BPA out the window) and you don't seem to agree with it. So I am getting his point that you don't agree with. 1. I had this conversation on draft day so I am not going to go back and forth on this one again but I do think that Phillips, Flowers, and at least two WRs would be BPA over Keller. Many people on this board would like to believe that Keller was BPA but I do not share this view. 2. He might be the next coming of Shannon Sharpe but he is still a TE. 3. Hypothetically, I have no problem with selecting a TE in round one but I did not think Keller was good enough relative to what we could have had instead. 4. If he is as good as Gates or Winslow out of the backfield, I would not complain if he blocked just as good as them too. 5. Not sure where you are going with this one but I would select BPA over need nine times out of ten.
Thanks Don for the completely unsupported "fact" that you haven't already informed us of like...12381382380234 times. You forgot to tell us how dumb we were for not getting McFadden or a Long BTW. Don't worry, you don't need links or reports or anything to *maybe* support your claim. You can just say it, treat it like fact, and hope everyone buys into it.
you raise some good points. Flowers wasn't an option b/c of character, but Phillips is a legitimate case here.... We will see how this thing develops. The WR's in this class were not spectacular and I agree with the FO that the best pass-catcher was Keller. They drafted him as a WR/H-Back/TE. It will be interesting to see how many times he lines up in-line and flexed out this year.
If you think back to the last two seasons, most of our big plays where YAC-plays, Schotty?s system relies on YAC. Keller was the best player in the draft when it comes to YAC. He will be our #3 WR, who can be lined up in 5 different spots on the field (X, Z, Y, slot and Backfield) and due to that, we will motion and shift him around a lot to create missmatches (another thing Schotty likes to do a lot). He also is strong and powerfull enough to leadblock out of the backfield, or even take the handoff. Schtty probybly didn?t sleep for the last 10 days because everytime he closes his eyes, he thinks of another way to get Keller the ball in space: swings, bubbles, screens, end arounds, you name it. He may not have been BPA, but if he pans out, he will be more valueable for this team than any other guy on the board.
What's your definition of good to very good? There are only 2 Jets on the current roster that were taken from the 1st to 3rd rounds from 2001 to 2004, and we're working very hard at losing those two (Chris Baker and Bryan Thomas.) Seriously, the only players taken on the first day of the draft from 2001 to 2004 who are still making contributions to the Jets are two JAGS who apparently aren't going to be around for long. Then you have Justin Miller and Sione Pouha in 2005, neither of whom can get on the field consistently on defense. You have D'Brick in 2006 who has not lived up to expectations and Anthony Schlegel who was an insta-bust. I think the Jet's talent evaluation over the last 7 years has been uniformly bad and it shows on the roster.
D Brick has not lived up to expectations? If so your expectations are so far out of wack its silly. He has started every game and steadly improved since he's been here. He was never projected to be a Pace or Ogden type of guy, but a good 10 to 12 year left tackle and is well on the way to doing that. You also conveniently left out that THIS front office has drafted well. You like to go back 7 years to prove you point, but different people were running the show. In two drafts Mangini and company have added 4 solid starters, 5 if Kellen gets the nod this year. That also leaves out Leon Washington who is a good 3rd down back and special teams stud. Hardly a bad drafting record for them. My biggest knock against them is a lack of picks, but several were traded for Vets (Jones and Jenkins) and we have a very good ammount heading into next year.
You're right, the Jets wanted Flacco and wanted McFadden and wanted Long and didn't want any other players, so they traded up to draft Keller. Your theories are so unsound it borders on trolling.
I don't know why you blame Tannenbaum and Mangini for Bradway and Herm's sins? These guys have made some mistakes with talent both FA and Draft but they have certainly drafted some superb young players. If we end up with two starters from this draft and some depth which is highly likely, you would have to give them very high grades for the young talent they brought in. You get two high quality starters in 3 consecutive drafts and that's not bad. Harris and Mangold are also look to be more than just quality NFL starters they look to be potentially great dominating players to anchor the middle of both lines no small task. There's no denying that we were one of the worst teams in the league last year but its still early to judge Mangini and Tannenbaum. No question they made a lot of mistakes last year but they also seem to have addressed some of them.
Since Mangini and Tannenbaum have been running the show, our drafts have been above average at worst, and probably closer to spectacular. If Keller and Gholston work out...we'll be 6 of 7 with a possible 7 for 7 (Clemens) in nailing down starters in the first two rounds. That's spectacular.
What criteria do you use for calling the Jet's drafts under this regime "close to spectacular"? I would normally use wins produced by the players they drafted and acclaim, such as pro-bowl selections, to make those judgements. What's your criteria?
i willl continue to be concerned with kellers blocking ability until he proves he can block on the nfl level. i was very confused about tannenbaum saying he will be used as a typical te or something to that extent a couple days after the draft. that didnt make sense to me and things im reading in this thread make me believe that keller doesnt think that makes sense either. if he is used as they say he will as a normal te then i have HUGE concerns.
Do you really think that Tannenbaum, who basically makes statements that define nothing in the press, is going to expound on their gameplanning with a new player that hasn't even seen the practice field a couple of days after the draft? For the most part, I think he said that to give Baker even less leverage.
You don't think Harris played at a pro-bowl level once he was inserted into the starting lineup? How about Mangold you don't see a top 5 NFL center in him? Revis looked to me to be an outright stud at CB in his rookie year. You have two spectacular special teams players in the second day of the draft with Leon and Smith, I would say that's pretty good any way you want to judge it. This draft is an unkown but we may well come out with 3 quality starters.
you hit it on the nose winston, this staff has done a great job with the draft and solid players for the long haul. keller seems to be a mangini guy and glad we addressed a weapon for our qb. it would be great if he is anywhere close to be in the same league as dallas clark.
Um...the players actual performance? I know, I know...thats stupid. David Harris? Shit player. Revis? If it's even humanly possible, he just might be worse than Harris...after all we traded up for him, gave him 5 instead of 6 years, and he was a first round pick. D'Brick? D'BUST!! (LAWLZ) Mangold? His sisters a better football player. Why would they suck using your super-duper fool proof logic?...Because they don't have a single Pro-Bowl AND the best record amongst these players is 14-18...Harris and Revis are a terrible 4-12. I completely agree with you as usual dude. 4-12 shall live in infamy FOREVER.
i think i said over the past two years. that is what i meant re: the draft success being good to great.
