I was ready to walk away following Rex, Idzik and Mac. JD gave me hope and excitement, and to a lesser extent Saleh since he was the consensus best candidate, but Saleh is not whom I wanted. I wanted Brian Daboll since he was an OC and had a track record of developing QBs. I was also a big Zach Wilson fan and wanted the Jets to draft him, and was ecstatic when they did. I read an article a week or so ago, that Daboll has anger and self control issues and is self destructive, so that probably wouldn't have worked out, as a HC, but I think Zach would have played much better with Daboll. I think that Daboll would have put a system in place that was based on Zach's strengths. He would have helped him with his mechanics as he did Allen in Buffalo, and the play calling would have been infinitely better, and I believe the offense overall, as he never would have accepted all the penalties and sloppy play. He would have had a better offensive staff, although the D staff may not have been as good. So we probably would have won more games, and if the Jets had still drafted Zach (Daboll may not have wanted Zach), I believe that Zach would have been playing at a level now that the Jets would never have had to make the trade with GB for Rodgers, so would probably be better off talent-wise as well. There may have been more controversy, although until last week, I hadn't heard any negatives regarding Daboll and his temper and problems with Martindale. Had you heard anything prior to last week about their trouble?
I disagree. The article is still totally relevant because Saleh, Hackett, Rodgers, and Douglas are still here. Rodgers is 40 and coming off an achilles tear. Were his poorer stats in 2022 a result of his rib and knee (or was it ankle?) injuries, or had he started to decline precipitously? You can't say that the o-line will be improved. We said it would be last year, and it wasn't. Until JD signs a couple of quality OTs in FA or signs one and drafts one, it isn't improved. AVT probably won't start until 3-4 games into the season, and if Tomlinson's back, the IOL very well may not be any better. We also don't know that they'll stay healthy. The turf wasn't changed at Metlife or at the Jets' facility. If Huff walks in FA, the D probably won't get nearly as much pressure on opposing QBs, so most likley won't be as good. There's no reason to think that Saleh will be any better of a HC this season. He hasn't revealed any epiphanies that he has had or changes that he is definitely making. The possibility of Hackett having a diminished role calling plays is a positive initially, but the group thing that was mentioned as a possibility could wind up being a big mess and no better than Hackett, and could actually have the Run Game Coordinator and the Passing Game Coordinator at odds. Douglas has some HUGE holes to fill, little cap space, and doesn't have a 2nd or 5th round pick. If the Jets are to be appreciably better, then he has to hit at least a bases-clearing triple in the draft, if not a grand slam. I also don't agree that the Jets gave up 4 plays into the season. The D kept playing hard. JD kept adding players to try to improve the situation, but the players kept going down with injuries, Saleh stayed hands-off with the offense, and Hackett showed how totally incompetent he is.
I disagree. If Brissett had been our starter, the QB play would have been better. Hackett probably wouldn't have been, but Brisset would probably have been able to make reads and plays that Zach couldn't in spite of Hacketts' buffoonery. Injuries affect a QB, especially to his rib cage and a leg or foot injury all of which can affect the throwing motion, velocity and accuracy. I do think that Rodgers hurt himself and the Packers by not being in OTAs, and minicamp considering all of the rookie WRs they had. I agree that it is certainly possible that Rodgers could have had about the same statistics if he had stayed healthy due to decline, but I think it was a combination of the injuries, not being on the same page with the rookie WRs, and to a lesser extent age.
We started this with you comparing Zach Wilson to Aaron Rodgers and now you want to compare Baker Mayfield to him. Rodgers certainly has lost a step from his glory years, and until we see him play we won't know how many steps. But there is an entire skyscraper of steps between Aaron Rodgers and Zach Wilson and a nice sized highrise between him and Mayfield. Mayfield struggled to stay on a team for very long over the past couple of years, you can't compare them. Rodgers was so good at one point that even diminished and having lost steps, his experience and savvy is enough to make him better better than half the league. I would say at worst he's a mid-level quarterback, and hopefully we can get better out of him. The real question here is whether a mid-level quarterback was enough to get us over the hump, and it was not. It is not whether or not he's better than bubble guys.
That doesn’t matter. I would still rather take my chance that he still has it, than think that the jets know what they are doing with another rookie. Because they never do. A 21 year old can also tear their Achilles , and not be practicing by December.
Well they kinda have to roll with Rodgers at this point, his contract is huge and nearly impossible to cut or trade him
That is true… But givin the jets qb history, I would still rather see what he has . Achilles can happen to anyone . 4 plays in, is just jets
If we offered to eat his 18 million this season we could probably trade him for a 2nd. If pushed, we might have to eat another 10 million next year, but that would still save us 40 million and get us a 2nd.
I wasn't comparing Baker to Rodgers.I was simply using Baker as a great supporting example of just how flawed these surface level only assumptions tend to be that simply choose to lazily copy and paste the same expected QB production over to a completely different team and support system. And just how dramatic that otherwise expected variance can be when going from a generally good one to, and in our case especially, a particularly bad one. Jimmy G leaving a good situation for himself in SF for Vegas last year would be another great example btw. I'm going to point this out one last time here and then let it go because I know people hate hearing it. The 2024 set of games isn't going to get played out in 2021. Suggesting there is a highrise difference *today* between a reasonably projected out 41yo Rodgers and a 28yo Mayfield right now is flat out living in the past man Just as i fully expect Rodgers to see a pretty notable downswing in production from 2022 while coming here, I also believe it's not all that unreasonable to expect Zach Wilson to see at least some form of an uptick in production if/when given another opportunity outside the absolute worst team in the league at extracting such.
Fair enough, I get all you're saying, but I don't think anyone here is expecting to see Rodgers the superstar. Actually I should only speak for myself. I absolutely was not. But everybody has been saying for two seasons now that better quarterback play would have us in a better position, and I will stand by that. I will also stand by the fact that Aaron Rodgers would have given us much much better quarterback player than we have gotten. As for the upcoming season, this is the Jets. It will be an absolute disaster no matter what happens.
I agree with your assessment of Rodgers, and the chances of the Jets making the playoffs with him as QB favorable, but that completely depends on him being healthy and playing the whole season (or the vast majority of it), which I think is very shaky, especially if Douglas doesn't radically improve the OL, and the odds of that happening based in his track record are slim. Even to say, as some here have, that "If Rodgers was the QB this past season we would've made the playoffs" is highly questionable given the poor OL. After all, he didn't even survive two full series before he was lost for the season, and the OL didn't really improve after that. Yes, Rodgers is a HUGE upgrade over Zach and the rest of the QBs we had, but that still didn't - and doesn't - make him invincible and immune from injury. If he didn't get hurt Game 1, he would've almost certainly gotten hurt at some point after that, He wasn't - and isn't - mobile enough to counter the terrible pass pro the Jets provided. Maybe they would've made the playoffs with him if somehow he avoided serious injury, but I think the odds were much higher that he was going to get hurt sooner or later and end any chance of the playoffs.
I agree with your assessment, but I don't think Rodgers would've played the entire season even if he didn't get hurt in Game 1. And that's the problem going into next year. I absolutely think Rodgers can still play at a high level and even take the Jets to the SB - if he stays healthy. Big, huge, MASSIVE "IF". And he almost certainly won't if Douglas doesn't perform a miracle revamp of the OL. Not to mention that Saleh and Hackett figure out how to create and execute a decent NFL offense, which so far there is no proof to believe. Woody, Douglas, Saleh, and Hackett all want the fans to believe that next year will be much different because Rodgers will be the QB, but those who swallow that line are no different than Charlie Brown believing this time Lucy won't snatch the ball away.
The hype will be the same as it was last season by camp. First we'll sign some declining FAs and people will post stats about how they were actually top 5 in the league during the first two minutes of the second half when its raining. Then we'll get pumped about the upside of our number 1 pick, and the entire draft, which may include major trade ups. Then we'll make a splash signing of someone who will only be a shadow of their former greatness. Then Rogers will shine during meaningless workouts and the headline will be that he looks better than his last MVP season. People will suddenly believe division win/superbowl run by preseason.
Oh, absolutely! Everything any of us is talking about is complete conjecture anyway, so I figured I would use the best case scenario as a counterpoint to the worst case scenario. But you're right, there's no way he stays healthy, and they are selling us on the hope that he does.
Rodgers was never Lamar Jackson sure but mobility in the pocket and throwing on the run was a big part of his game. I suspect that will be severely impacted, if/when he does play again.
I actually disagree here. I don't think running back with *just* Rodgers being included this time is enough to completely wash the lingering 2023 stink off. Especially with a lot of the fan base already turning on Saleh, and pretty much everybody in open acknowledgement agreement at this point that Hackett is a complete undeserving fraud at OC. *Maybe* doubling down on the casual fan's love of "name" star power gets them back close *when* (not if) they try to make a bad desperation trade to bring in an aging Danvante Adams. But I'm starting to believe that option isn't going to even be on the table anymore. Vegas might be too desperate themselves to be relevant to fully commit to a rebuild, and that makes me question how butt hurt Rodgers going to be this winter when he goes recruiting and Davante is like: "Yeah I was frustrated with last year, but with the coaching changes I'm good staying in Vegas with whatever QB we bring in over complaining my way over to your sinking ship". Last year was a 1 shot deal on a hype sell that always had a high probability chance of failure to begin with. You won't get the same level of reality ignoring 2 years in a row, and I don't see how else they get there without the Davante trade. Bringing in Mike Evans doesn't do nearly as well on the market presentation front of selling the possibility of Rodgers returning to prime GB form.
I disagree with you on fans buying into the hype. Some will but most I think will want to see results on the field first. Show me the wins starting in September. The media can hype the Jets up all they want. It means nothing if they don't start winning games. After the disappointment of last season especially with all the hype they got. Most fans will take a wait and see approach this time. I know I will.
Vegas ain't gonna putting out any fluffed up and sucker bet Super Bowl winning odds either. That alone did quite the expectation number as far as breaking people's brains went.
https://x.com/JakeAsman/status/1755353182967128506?s=20 Interesting little segment from Jake Asman and Michael Lombardi
