Well, let's just say I agree with you, which I don't, but let's say it anyway. What would be the difference discussing it? Is there a more pressing issue with the Yankees right now to talk about? Or should I go waste some more time trying to convince people not to pay attention to the NY media that continues to stretch the truth or outright lie regarding the Jets? :smile: Obviously he's the superior hitter. Hell, there aren't many guys he isn't superior to in MLB. The question is, in which slot does he do more damage. Here's a question for you two. If the position in the order doesn't matter, do you think David Ortiz would have hit the way he has in Boston if he were hitting behind Manny all those years?
I think he would have hit the same or damn close to it...only difference is hed have waaaaay less RBI cuz Manny would have already drove them all in
yankees line up 1.damon L 2.jeter r 3.tex s 4.arod r 5.posada s 6.nady r 7.matsui l 8.swisher s 9.cano l
I argue A-Rod bats 3rd because it should get him focused on being the actual hitter he really is, he should be hitting doubles and using his speed to put himself in a position to score. His swing is naturally strong that he frequently hits the ball out of the park. At 4th he clearly was trying to do to much to help the team in. He was trying to hit hime runs and any coach will tell you that doesn't work. A-Rod bats 3 you see the old Texas A-Rod, guaranteed.
Interesting. I totally disagree with you, but okay. No way Matsui hits behind Nady. Chances are, he hits in front of Posada too. When he's healthy, he's a better hitter than either of them. Also, if Cano is truly improving as has been reported, there's no way he hits lower than 6. Right now, my most likely lineup is: Damon Jeter Teixeira ARod Matsui Posada Cano Nady Swisher The only spot I'd say was subject to change would be Tex and ARod switching positions.
That's missing the point. Even if there is such a thing as "protection," from the team's point of view, there's really no difference, since Manny will then benefit from the protection of Ortiz. But the stats say there isn't really any individual protection. Or, not enough to make a difference anyway. In fact, you'll remember in 2004, Ortiz was hitting in the cleanup spot behind Manny. And his stats did go up once they switched spots. The funny thing is, though, so did Manny's.
The only thing with "protection" is that it could be a mental thing with some players, just like hitting in a certain spot in the lineup. There is no logical reason why a guy should hit way better in the 6 spot over the 8 spot, but some do. Similarly, some guys feel they need "protection" behind them, and Ortiz is one of them unfortunately. After the Manny trade, he whined about not having protection, and his numbers went down. That may have been due to the wrist injury, but if it's in his head that he isn't going to see good pitches without Manny behind him, that's a very real concern.
I'd take that as fair. If it's simply mental, it still affects the outcome. Here's the thing, I think pitchers have to take the guys into consideration too. Let's say Damon is on third, Jeter is on second, there's one out, and the current count is 3-1. If ARod is at bat, with Teixeira on deck, and I'm the pitcher, I walk Alex and take my chances with Teixiera. If Teixeira is at bat, I'll try to throw strike two with ARod coming up. Not that either is comforting to pitch to with less than 2 outs and the bases loaded, but if I have to risk a pitch against one or the other, I'm taking my chances with Teixeira before ARod. Just like I'd risk Ortiz before Manny. Obviously you want to avoid the entire scenario, but if you have to pick your poison, you might as well choose the one that puts you in the ICU over the one that kills you outright.
Giambi is back with Oakland. Good for him. A little too close to BALCO if you ask me, but at least he found a home for the 2009 season.
Bleh. Whatever. Screw Giambi. He played pretty good, when he actually played, but I wouldn't say we got a good ROI with him.
You're missing the point, though, as far as it applies to the team's results. Let's use the scenario you provided... if pitchers are more likely to walk A-Rod to take a shot at Teixeira, you're putting an extra man on base for a very, very good hitter. Any runs missed out on by having a slightly less awesome hitter at the plate in Teixeira are mitigated by the fact that there's an extra man on base for him to drive in. As for Giambi, depends on what you expected from him. Here's Giambi's OPS+ during his time with the Yanks: 2002 - 172 (!!!) 2003 - 148 2004 - 90 (intestinal parasite... read: roid withdrawal) 2005 - 161 2006 - 148 2007 - 108 (injured foot) 2008 - 128 Now, if you're saying the injuries are what ruined the contract, fine... but when he played, he was typically very, very productive. For comparison's sake, here's Teixeira's OPS+ next to Giambi's in the same years: 172 - n/a 148 - 102 90 - 131 161 - 144 148 - 126 108 - 150 128 - 151
There is really no good place to post this but since everybody can appreciate a good rip on Boston sports, I will put it here. They don't happen very often so I couldn't let it slip by. http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/f...o-medocrity-is-return-to-familiar?eref=fromSI "Success is the worst thing that ever happened to the Boston sports scene. After years of struggling, the city finally reached the summit of the sports mountain. But Boston teams aren't comfortable at the top and one by one they've slipped back to the state of mediocrity the city is accustomed to. Boston College's handling of football coach Jeff Jagodzinski is the latest example of a Boston team shooting itself in the foot. The Eagles have reached a consistent level of success, winning 10 games the last two seasons, and all of a sudden they have to play big man on campus and teach their coach a lesson for talking to an NFL team. The Red Sox win two World Series and all of a sudden they're not going to let Manny Ramirez push them around. How'd that work out, Theo? The Patriots win three Super Bowls and the NFL rules don't apply to them. Now they've gone from what could have been the last true NFL dynasty to one of the many forgettable mini-dynasties over the last 25 years, tainted forever by the asterisk hanging by their name. The Celtics win a title and now GM Danny Ainge can do no wrong and is even considering bringing in an obvious cancer like Stephon Marbury. Even the mention of Marbury's name connected to the team has sent the Celts into a death spiral. Boston teams have no idea how to act like winners. They taste success and the humility is out the door in two seconds. I wouldn't be surprised if the Bruins were the only Boston team to win a title for some time. The Red Sox have been thrashed by the Yankees in the hot stove league. The Patriots missed the postseason completely and don't know when Tom Brady is coming back. And the Celtics don't look like they're going to get as lucky against the Cavaliers in this season's Eastern Conference playoffs. Boston, you had a nice run. Now it's time to go hang out with the Detroits of the world and let another town take over as America's most successful sports city."
I hate the Bruins and Patriots, and don't follow the NBA much but mildly like the Celtics and this is ridiculous. BC is stupid for firing the coach, but the others make no sense. Red Sox- How did it work out? How about going to Game 7 in the ALCS with an injured Beckett, Ortiz, and Lowell. If even one of those players is 100% the Sox are celebrating back to back titles. Celtics- I'm pretty sure they got off to the best start in NBA history. Lucky? Really? No. They're just really, really good. Patriots- As much as I hate them, they clearly are a very good team. They won 11 games with a QB who hadn't played since high school. They'll be fine.
This seems to speculate that if the Yankees make another offer to Pettitte it will be for less than the 10 million he turned down. In that case I would just move on. That would cause a lot of bad blood. http://www.nypost.com/seven/0107200...s__yanks_next_offer_to_andy_will_b_149079.htm
In fairness, what I said about Giambi was that he played pretty good when he actually played. Had he played through his whole contract, sure, he'd have been worth it offensively. (Though defensively, he left something to be desired.) But in 20/20 hindsight, his "illness" was unforgivable. As far as the batting order thing, I understand your point, I simply disagree with it. I would think a pitcher would rather fight Teixeira before ARod, though obviously you wouldn't want to face either with RISP. Honestly, I think the point makes more sense when you expand it further.. Basically, does ARod see more deep count strikes with Teixeira batting behind him, or with Matsui/Posada? Does Teixeira see more late count strikes with ARod, or Matsui/Posada behind him? Especially if there are no runners on base. If you're pitching to ARod, the count is 3-1, there's one out, and Matsui is on deck, do you chance one over the middle? Or do you throw it away and hope that if he swings he whiffs? I know jonnyd hates to hear things like this, but I view baseball as one big chess match. Every single move effects the final outcome.
But that is STILL missing the point, as I mentioned before. I agree that the pitcher might rather face Tex than A-Rod. Okay, fine. So what? In the end, it will amount to the same amount of runs, due to the fact that there's either an extra runner on base for Teixeira to drive in, or a better hitter at the plate in A-Rod. They're tiny differences that even out over the course of a long season. Have you ever pitched? That's not how the thought process goes. You're always trying to make your pitch. How cute you're willing to get is another story... but you're never thinking "I'm going to chance throwing one over the middle." If it's over the middle, it's a mistake, no matter who you're facing. And, again, the reason it doesn't matter is that for every situation over the course of the season where you lose the "protection" of Teixeira batting behind A-Rod, you gain a hitter like Teixeira hitting in front of A-Rod. For all the times you're lowering A-Rod's chances when he comes up with the bases empty (because Tex isn't hitting behind him), you're increasing the chances that he doesn't come up with the bases empty.
Fine Cappy. No, I was never a pitcher, at least not a good one, I've said that before. I have caught though, and I was pretty good. I know I would avoid calling for a risky pitch if the next batter was a better chance at an out, even if it did put a better hitter on base. Anyway, I'll just skip trying have any further discussion because it doesn't work for you. My bad.
Right... but what's a "risky" pitch? Have you ever called for a pitch and said, "Hey... just throw it down the middle"? Probably not. (Or if you did, it was because they guy couldn't find the plate, in which case you have bigger problems than whether to face this guy or the next.) Huh?
