Great to see somebody write the truth for a change. http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/26495502/ "The Yankees are dead. Long live the Mets. In New York, nobody has much patience for non-playoff baseball teams — even those with 26 world championships, a 13-year postseason streak and a new, grandiose stadium on the horizon. The Yankees are mired hopelessly in third place right now in the AL East, and all that’s left is a postmortem analysis and a jolting prescription for the future, which is actually quite simple. The Yanks must remember again that they are the Yanks, and not the Oakland A’s. It is no great mystery where things went wrong this season. General manager Brian Cashman decided he wanted to be Billy Beane. And although it’s a nice, feel-good notion to develop your own homegrown stars through the minor-league system, the Steinbrenner Yankees never did that before when it came to starting pitchers. From Catfish Hunter to David Cone to Roger Clemens, the club’s aces were traditionally mercenaries, imported to get the job done for two or three years before retiring or moving elsewhere. Going the youth route Cashman, however, decided to change all that because he and the Tampa cabal experienced a troubled history recently while chasing outside talent pools. In direct competition with Theo Epstein of the Red Sox, Cashman signed the wrong former Marlin (Carl Pavano vs. Josh Beckett), the wrong former Japanese star (Kei Igawa vs. Daisuke Matsuzaka) and the wrong former Arizona Diamondback (Randy Johnson vs. Curt Schilling). Having been burned so many times before, Cashman went the youth route. He turned his back on Johan Santana, refusing in a proposed deal to give up the quintessential mediocre prospect, outfielder Melky Cabrera. Instead he dived headlong into the 2008 season with a projected starting rotation that included young arms Chien-Ming Wang, Phil Hughes, Ian Kennedy and swingman Joba Chamberlain. What followed was an unmitigated disaster, and one that should not have been wholly unexpected. You place your chips on immature arms, no matter how promising, and a raft of injuries and setbacks are bound to follow. In New York, fans witnessed this sort of meltdown a dozen years ago with the Mets, when that organization figured Bill Pulsipher, Paul Wilson and Jason Isringhausen were the starting rotation of the future. . . . . .
George's ways gave us the 80s and the post dynasty Yankees this decade. Had George not been suspended in the early 90s we never we have seen that dynasty. We need more homegrown players, that's why we won 4 Championships in 5 years.
Going one way or the other completely will always fail, going into the season counting completely on young players is too big of a gamble as you have no idea how long it will take for them to develop, and going the other way is a bad idea as well as the only good pitchers that you till usually be able to buy is the fading star pitcher who will undoubtably fade to oblivion while on your team and weigh down your team like an anchor or you have to trade for a star pitcher in his peak where you will have to completely empty out your farm in the process which is bad for a team that is already old. Mixing the two would be the best way to do it if possible.
I think it's so cute that people will continue to bash Cashman about the Yankees' pitching situation this year (mostly to point at Hughes/Kennedy vs. Santana) and claim that it's the reason they're not making the playoffs. The Yankees aren't making the playoffs because they have steadfastly refused to hit the damn baseball all season long. That has nothing to do with pitching, and less to do with injuries. It's cute, but it's wrong. And it's not a very intelligent argument either.
Cashman made the error of solely depending on young pitchers without the veteran net to help just in case they don't developed immediately which is one reason why they have Ponson and Rasner on their rotation. However, you are right that the offense was a huge letdown for you guys this year.
but other than Pettitte and mariano we never went with youth or homegrown for pitching. That is what the article says in case you missed it:up:
No, we won those championships for the exact reason that article says. Because Steinbrenner personally brought in Clemens, Boggs, Cone, Wells...etc.
0-8 and a 8+ ERA is not cute although you might think it is. If they had managed to win 8 games instead of losing them where would we be now? Cute, right. The 4 championships we won were won on pitching, not because we batted in 900 or 1000 runs those years.
It's been both. The offense is ranked higher than the pitching though. They are 18th in ERA and 15th in WHIP. Offensively they are 7th in AVG, 5th in OBP, but only 11th in runs. So they are hitting, just not scoring. I don't watch enough Yankee games to say why for sure, but it might be because they have hit into the 4th most DP. One thing that was surprising to me was with all the big hitters in their lineup they are 11th in extra base hits and SLG. The pitching certainly hasn't been that good though.
We won 2 Championships BEFORE we got Clemens(1 before and 2 after Wells) and we had the best team of the last 30 years at least. George was still suspended when we brought in Boggs. Stick and Buck built the dynasty, after george came back we added more pieces but w/o the core it wouldn't have been possible.
Granted the pitching hasn't been mistaken for an All-Star team, but this team does not generate runs. When pitchers of medicore (at best) talent go out and pitch 7 innings of 2-run ball, and you still lose, it's not the pitching at fault. As for the argument regarding vets vs. youth, the Yankees had two vets who pitched very well for them this year. Moose had a great year, and Pettitte, while not always good, has had a couple stretches where he was brilliant. Losing Wang hurt more than anything Hughes or Kennedy did. Joba had to be worked into the rotation, so we lost starts there. What is the Yankees' average with RISP this year? I'll bet that tells a helluva story. Instead, we'll all just sit around and point fingers at Cashman and Alex Rodriguez. It's not like we don't have the laziest baseball player ever at second base, or a shortstop that took 4 months to remember how to play, or a center field that provides either no defense or no offense, or a first baseman who decided that the All-Star break was time to pack it in, or a catcher making an awful lot of money to be out for most of the year, only to be replaced by a guy who went 2 for his first 50 in a Yankee uniform. Give me a ****ing break. This team was terrible in 6 positions that aren't the pitcher, all year. (The only two players who get passes from me this year are Abreu and Nady. Abreu only gets one because he's hit all year, he still is too "exciting" in right field. Actually, I should maybe add Molina, who was great defensively, but he provides almost no offense whatsoever, though he's not really supposed to.)
Couldn't be more right. IMO....over payed spoiled brats. With a lineup like the Yankees there is no reason we should not be playoff bound.
My hope is that, whatever spending Hank decides to do this winter, he isn't reckless and destructive to the YOUTH that the Yankees have. The Sox and the Yankees both have a handful of live young arms and a handful of homegrown field talent, and it COULD be a great era of baseball to see to rivals battle back and forth with their own talent. That isn't to say that I'm against free agents. Finding mercs for power, top-end pitching, and role players be important for BOTH teams. I'd be disappointed, though, if Hughes, Kennedy, Chamberlain, Buchholz, Masterson, and Lester were peddled off. Part of baseball, and might even be good player management, but I'd still be disappointed.
It doesnt matter who the yanks get or who they dont get. The move will fall apart. On the other end of things...The Sox could make Buddy Groom their ace and he'd win a Cy Young. It's disgusting and unwatchable.
quintessential mediocre prospect, outfielder Melky Cabrera how dare he slander the Melk Man! The Melk Man delivers!!! Got Melk?!
I wholeheartedly agree. The Yankees must return to giving outrageous long-term contracts to players either just past their prime or at the end of their prime and ignore any notions of internal player development. They must return to reactionary moves that ignore the long term and trade away any semblance of talent seen in the minor leagues now that might attract any current commodities. Seriously though, as a Sox fan I view this kind of talk as batshit insane. If people have complaints about specific moves (or non-moves) Cashman has made in the last year that have led to this year's disappointment, then fine. But to dismiss the efforts to build a successful farm system as some cute, trivial matter that only small market teams really need to worry about is stupid. A look around the AL East is all one should need to see to be convinced of that. The Rays and Red Sox both have had their fare share of injuries, yet both teams have generally been able to overcome them, in large part due to their deep farm systems. These days less and less players are reaching free agency before signing long term deals, and even fewer players are worth singing to long term deals once their contracts run up. Having a productive minor league system is probably the most reliable, and in the future might become the only reliable way for a team to have sustained success. Home grown players are cheaper, have more potential to improve, are less likely to get injured, and are retained for a longer period of time than the vast majority of players likely to be acquired either through free agency or trade. With the Yankees financial resources there is no reason that they can not and should not be able to outspend everyone on the international market in search of young stars, or be able to overpay on draft slots for highly talented players in the draft that fall due to signability issues. Coupled with good judgment and good development systems in place, there is absolutely no reason that within the next few years the Yankees should not be younger, cheaper, and above all, better for a long time to come. People need to be more patient with the Yankees, it scares the shit out of my what they might do in the next 10 years if they actually get their act together. P.S: I realize that there are times and places for splurging on proven commodities if the price and situation are right (as I believe that they were when it came to Santana this past winter.) Obviously, a G.M needs to be able to balance holding onto young talent with using minor league depth to help gain known commodities when it both helps the team immediately and makes sense long term.
I don't hate him, I appreciate the fact that he spent money BUT I hated when he got involved in decision making.
