This may seem a bit far fetched to some, but.... I think we lost the game when Miller had the TD return. I honestly felt that Chad, with 2 1/2 minutes and a TO left, and a decent starting field position , say around the thirty, would have driven the Jets to a TD, and killed the clock so Manning would not have had enough time to put a drive together. Pennington doesn't have the arm to go 80 yards in under a minute with no time outs left, but give him 2 1/2 minutes, and a TO or two, and I'm very confident he could have eaten the clock and scored on that Indy defense. Honestly, not more than 5 seconds after Miller's TD, this is what I was thinking. Even during the return, I was half hoping Miller would get tackled. I know it sounds like Herm logic, but this isn't Herm's offense.... it's Shottenhiemer's, and with Pennington given some time, against a weak D.... and I can't believe I'm going to say this..... we scored too fast. Against just about any other team I would not say that. Against Manning.... did ANYONE think the D could stop him on that drive? I didn't. And that's why I started this thread. Was anyone else thinking the same thing?
Yeah, it is interesting what you are saying. But when it comes down to it, a guranteed touchdown is better than a non guranteed touchdown.
Right when he scored I said "they gave them too much time". But like he said, you HAVE to take guaranteed points no matter what. Ideally the 'D" should've been able to make a stop.
If it were a tie game, or less than 3 points it would have been the smart play to stop at the 5 yard line there then burn the clock out and kick the FG. Given the circumstances though, if he stops and god forbid we don't get the TD we're basically putting the game on a coin toss if we've already conceeded that we can't stop the Colts offense. No way you pass up on taking the lead there - you can't. Our D has to be able to make a stop.
Oddly enough, I have thought the same thing. I wouldn't attribute the loss to that, as the defense just killed us, but had Grammatica been able to bring down Miller, I think we walk away with a win. Still, that return was simply awesome. I almost passed out I was freaking out so hard.
i agree with that assessment. one thing i am curious about though is why leon screwed us out of decent field position there at the end?
Someone please tell me if ANY NFL team has ever NOT returned a kickoff for a TD in a crucial situation, against (arguably) the best team in the league, etc... Please, if our D wasn't in such a giving spirit, we'd be talking about this team going DEEP into the playoffs. I'm really not a football purist, so I really mean it when I say that I'd like to know if any team has purposely given up such a HUGE play just so they can assure a win.
I understand where all of you are coming from giving the best qb in the game 2 minutes to operate is to much time, but it also sent the crowd into a frenzy and the defense could have worked off that emotion. Also if the Jets are expected to be taken as a big time team then the D has to step up and make Peyton make a mistake or generate a turnover or something. Remember Vilma came within inches to making the interception on the final drive. Also cant give those wr's that much cushion when working those down and out routes. Sutton has to find someway to generate more pressure on the qb.
Maybe Miller could have stopped at the one yard line (if the chasers had given up) and done a little dance, pretending he was celebrating in the end zone. He could have milked the clock there, his blockers could lay some blocks if the chasers realized. 5 or ten seconds coulda made the difference.
Don't get me wrong.... I'm certainly NOT saying Miller did anything wrong.... you take the points when you can get them, no doubt. But.... I was cringing when I saw how much time was left. Manning can eat most defenses for lunch in a two minute drill, and I simply knew our D was one of the "most defenses". My thread opener maybe wasn't quite right.... of course scoring a TD can't lose a game, that's a silly notion, but under the circumsatnces, I was REALLY worried that what DID happen, WOULD happen. I'm a realist.... I know this year is a "progress" year, not one with an eye on making the post season. But, talk about funny twists of fate.... I think that's what the Miller TD was. It sort of set Manning up for what he does best. The early game plan was to tease the Colts into running the ball. We gave them fronts that begged to be run against. Taking the Colts out of what they do best... the aerial attack. Darned near worked, too. The more I see of Mangini and his game plans, the more I like it.
I must agree, I was thinking, when Miller scored with 2:20 left, we'd be in for a dogfight. I also thought with 2:20 left, we'd score.. I didn't know if it was an FG or a TD, but I figured we'd score (or have the opportunity to... ie missed FG).
I can actually give you an example of what you are looking for- kind of, at least. If I don't post it later tonight, I'll post it tomorrow night.
While I understand what ThunderbirdJet is saying, I don't agree with it at all. Let's say Miller kneeled down in the end zone. The Jets would have been 80 yards away with two and a half or so minutes remaining trailing 24-21. The Jets would still have been many yards away from being in field goal range. They'd be mostly passing. Three things can happen when you pass the ball and two of them are bad. In other words, there is no guarantee the Jets would have been able to score on the drive had Miller not decided to run back the kickoff. The Jets offense is not as explosive as the Colts offense.
I know I can't speak for Thunderbird, but I think he was trying to say that he had a good feeling we were going to score with 2 and change remaining (as did I) because we were moving the ball all day. I also think he is saying that when we scored so quickly, he had a bad feeling that Manning was going to lead the Colts to a score before the end of the game... I don't think he was saying Miller should take a knee. ...... You take the score when you get it. I think he's talking about feelings here, not strategy.. At least that is how I took it.
Then the thread should be titled differently because it indicates the Jets lost the game on their own return of a TD. But yeah, if he is talking feelings, then that's something different. I thought the Jets would get the ball back again. The question was would they get the ball back after a Colts score or on downs or a Colts turnover. As for the former- how much time would be left?
Much appreciated. So many people are talking about this play as if it were a videogame play. I can't imagine Dungi saying: "hell yeah, those idiots scored on the kickoff return."
Better than I said it, 2004, good job, lol, and that's exactly what I was trying to convey.... what would have happened if Miller went down at the Colts' 40? Like Tony said, if Gramatica had made the tackle? A bit more than 2 minutes left, and one TO. Yes, I think Chad would have eaten clock and gotten the TD there. I was feelong very confident on the O's ability to get that done against a fairly poor Indy defense. It turned into a shootout of sorts, and the last team to have possession would score and win. Our D couldn't stop them, their D couldn't stop us. Millers TD gave them the last possession with enough time left to work with. While I am thrilled with Pennington so far, he needs more than a minute and no time outs to drive the field and score. He is healthy, and throwing well, but he does not have that sort of arm to go 90 yards in less than a minute. Look at the drive he led at the end of the first half. That's when he's dangerous... enough time to eat away at a prevent. He just isn't the guy that can make 3 throws to the sidelines for 90 yards with less than a minute to play. Not many QB's can.... but he isn't one of the few that can do it.
It's possible. The Colts were out of timeouts, I do believe, and that would have helped the Jets bleed the clock.
Let it go man... Let it go. Look at my avatar -- Ryan "Binky" Williams couldn't let it go, and that's why he looks as he does in that picture. Think about it.
Let what go? It was just a thread about what I thought and felt as those plays unfolded. I'm not bitchin about how much daddy spanked me. But, as far as what you posted, I thought about it, laughed about it, and forgot about it. WTF are you even talking about?:drunk:
