I checked the first couple pages and didn't see a thread title that seemed to be talking about this. The play that changed the game, and a call I have never seen in 25 years of watching both pro andcollege football. Chad steps backs and throws what is supposed to be a quick pass to a WR. The ball is tipped on the way up and falls to the ground harmlessly. For the first time ever in my own recolection, it's not an incomplete pass. I've seen balls thrown incomplete where the ball bounces off an offensive player behind the point of the throw called a fumble. That I can understand. However... once again the refs have rewritten the rules to help the Patriots. I've seen at least 100 plays where the QB's arm is moving forward when hit, with the ball never moving forward, and it's been an incomplete pass EVERY TIME. I've seen a guy pump the ball then fumble when pulling it into his body called an incomplete pass, well only once of course... Not only was the call total BS, but at least only give them the ball at the point of recovery. To allow the advancement was completely rediculous. It also changed to course of the game completely. It a tight game, once again the refs have given the pats the nod. It makes me sick, and I have no idea why the owners do not do anything about it. Whats going to happen is some poor kid is going to have his career ended by injury because the players have no idea if the play is over or not.
Ummm....No The call was right in relation to what the rules said. Chad threw it BACKWARDS. That makes it a lateral, meaning anyone can pick up the ball and go wherever the hell they want with it. Its not the refs fault all the Jets just standed there twiddling their thumbs. Its the Jets fault. Its a fumble. Let it go, and the offseason will be that much easier.
Ummm...No I have never seen a play where the ball was tipped by a defender that close to the QB called a lateral. It has always been an incomplete pass. Explain to me why half the QB fumbles while "in the throwing motion" are not ruled laterals. Any examples will do here... And I have no problem dealing with the offseason as a fan of the Jets. I'm trilled with the season they had. I just hate seeing the Pats having the rules changed for them yet again in the playoffs.
It was a backwards pass. Replays confirm it as being an obvious backwards pass. The rules state that a backwards pass is considered a fumble and can be advanced. I honestly don't know what you're trying to argue here.
Because Pennington wasn't "in the throwing motion", he threw the ball backwards. Imagine if a Dlineman read a play perfectly and got through the line so fast, he was able to jump in front of a sweep play from Chad to Leon. As Chad turns and throws the ball backwards, it hits the player and falls to the ground. That is a fumble. Same exact thing happened here, except Chad threw the ball overhand instead of under.
I think I'm missing something here, the pass was clearly thrown backwards in relation to the line of scrimmage, that makes it a fumble. The same call if Chad tried a toss play to a RB and a defensive player knocked it down. Both cases a fumble. Am I missing your point?
Yeah, he was in the throwing...backwards motion. It's treated the same as a halfback toss because that's what it basically is.
Its only an incomplete if the ball is going forward. This one wasn't. It was going backwards. Basically, the play was a pitch, except that chad threw it overhand. Its a fumble. No rules were changed for the patriots. You may not call it seen often because it doesn't happen often, of the refs might miss that it was backwards, buts its the rules.
I have no clue how you could call that play "the same exact thing". The ball was on it's way up, and regardless of replay you have no clue where it was going to land. I already said a ball that bounces off an offensive player behind the QB should be a fumble. This ball was tipped at least close to the LOS. I have never seen that play called a fumble in 25 years. Again, if you have, please advise. And you completely dodged my point about QB's being hit in the throwing motion. That's an incomplete pass 99% of the time, yet half the time the ball goes sideways or backwards. How come all of those plays aren't fumbles? Another point dodged so far... Do you disagree that it is dangerous to allow plays to continue when even the refs have no idea what they are going to call? Do you disagree that someone is going to get extremely hurt? Do you disagree that at the very least the ball should have been spotted at the point of recovery?
The unfortunate thing is, the ball clearly travelled backwards. Had it been forward, it would have been a tipped pass and fallen harmlessly to the ground. Dead ball by virtue of incomplete pass, period. What sort of pissed me off was that we had to compound the damage by wasting a Time Out challenging the call. The TV announcer said, "This is a call you have to challenge!" Why? The camera angle clearly showed it to be backwards and somebody on the Jets side should have told Mangini to let it go... you're not going to reverse it. Instead, we squandered one of our valuable 2nd-half TO's.
fen, it was a clear backwards pass. Theres no question about it man, the other things ur talking about dont even apply, he threw the ball, he wasn't hit as he was throwing it. it was a clean backwards pass.
Honestly, it should have been ruled an incomplete pass. With the speed of the game, there was no way in hell a ref could 100% call that a lateral. It went backwards less than a yard. If chicken challenged an incomplete pass there, even if he won, I would have felt better about the play. Again though... How do you not at least call the ball dead at the spot of recovery? The players had no clue it wasn't an incomplete pass. Do you want to players killing each other on every questionable incomplete pass?
The d-lineman was nowhere near the line of scrimmage. I'm being conservative in saying that he was at least 2 yards behind it at that point. For your QB being hit thing--if the QB's arm begins forward, its not a fumble--because the throwing motion is forward. However, if he were throwing it backwards and hit, it should be a fumble, because he was trying to lateral it. As for your last point---The refs knew what they were doing--the let the play go on, because they knew it was a fumble. So it was recovered,, the play continued as it should and the ball was spotted where it should be.
How do they not apply? If the arm is hit in the throwing motion it HAS to be a fumble if the ball makes no forward progress. Period. However, it's called an incomplete pass every time. Again... Give me an example of another PASS being tipped within 1 yard of the LOS not being called an incomplete pass. Also, there is no way it was a "clear backwards pass" to anyone on the field of play. It was the pats sideline, who were closer to the players on that play, that told the player to pick it up and start running. Last time I checked football was 11 on 11, which is whay, at the very least, the ball should not have been advanced.
this thread is so ridiculous it borders on trolling. you should be banned just for starting this thread.
Well, I don't see people dodging anything, but that's just me. It was clearly a backwards pass and a lateral. What happens when a QB's arm is going forward is not relevant, because his arm wasn't going forward relative to the line of scrimmage - it was going backwards. That is, if you drew a line parallel to the line of scrimmage from where he was standing, his arm motion was towards a point behind the line, not a point in front of it, and that makes it a lateral, not a forward pass. As to your last point, I certainly do disagree. Players are taught from grade school that you play until the whistle blows. The referees knew exactly what they were going to call, which is why they didn't blow the whistle. The Jets don't get an advantage for being asleep, which seems to be what you are suggesting. The Jets won the AFL championship game in 1968 on the same kind of play, and no one was complaining then about it.
I thought it happened earlier this year with the jets, where they ran the same play and it ended up a fumble, although they recovered. And as for the coaches--thats what they're supposed to do--give the players advice. Its not like Bellichick ran onto the field and grabbed the ball. The fact that you're so worked up over what is so clearly a correct call is disconcerning.
Rediculous? Everyone here had a fucking ball with the Tom Brady tuck rule. At least provide an argument, or you are the only one trolling.
Fen the only thing I can think of that you might be confusing is this.....with the "tuck rule"9WHICH DOESNT COME INTO PLAY HERE) if a Qb is hit while his arm is moving forward and the ball drops out it is an incomplete pass regardless of whether the ball moves forward or backwards...which is retarded in my opinion...however in a situation like this where the qb CLEARLY THROWS THE BALL BACKWARDS, it is a loose ball....I have definitely scene this happen before although I cannot remember any instances....so to summarize......if Chad had seen the defender there and tried to stop his arm motion, but the ball still came out, believe it or not that is the tuck rule and the ball would be incomplete....in this instance though it is 100% no doubt no argument a fumblelina.......and the Jets just watched the ball....
