....Is because we lost Donnie Henderson. Mangini has 3-4 in his head and needs someone he can control to make sure his scheme is implemented which IMO is the reason he let him go. Now let me say this. The 3-4 may work next year, or the year after that but in order to do it you need 3-4 personnel and right now that will equal major changes to the front 7. It takes time and Personnel to convert a defense and a Defensive philosophy. You can still see that during the game we are shifting around, pointing, setting up. It takes time. This isn't Madden. Are we willing to overhaul a D just to force a scheme? If Donnie were still here the D would've had 2 years under his system, no Doubt in my Mind we would have a different Defense. It's the D that's holding us back But C'est la vie, Chalk this one up to "rebuilding" but I'm telling you right now, in the NFL a crappy defense is not an option so we're gonna either have to start seeing results soon or scrap the friggin thing.
The fact that our Defense was on the Field for 80% of the game had nothing to do with it? I'm guessing the last year was your first year as a JETS fan so you did'nt know that Donnie is the One that Came in and got our D to become the 4th rank D in the NFL. :wink:
I really liked Donnie when he was here. He realy motivated the team Buddy Ryan style. You are right in saying that we don't have the right players to fit the 3-4, so why did we get someone who runs it? If we were set up to run the 4-3, get a D-coordinator who runs the 4-3.
There was no way DH was staying so that's not the main reason. Though you're right that we're trying to run a scheme that we don't have the personnel for but I said it before when people bashed Herm for it and I'll say it here too, this is what pretty much all head coaches do when they take over a team...They try to implement "THEIR SCHEME" whatever it may be and like Royal said this is all part of the rebuilding process. Sometimes the HC gets lucky and they have the right personnel but many times they don't.
I actuallythough DH wanted to bring in the 3-4, but john abe was the big reason why we didn't because he failed miserably at LB.
The reason our defense sucks is that the players we have suck. 3-4 or 4-3 what's the difference? If we played a 4-3 we would have Thomas, Kimo, Robertson and Ellis on the line with Vilma, Barton and Hobson at linebacker. They would be just as bad with no pass rush and not enough of an inside force to stop the run. The bottom is that our interior lineman, the nose tackle in a 3-4 or defensive tackle in a 4-3 are absolutely horrible. Ellis and Kimo are fine at end in a 3-4 but with no inside players they can be handled relatively easily. Our first problem is that we have no solid inside players for a 4-3 or 3-4. Did anyone see how Jamal Williams played sunday night for the Chargers? He demanded a guard double team him on most plays. The Steelers were forced to run the ball ouside the tackles because Jamal was blowing up every play. The 3-4 is a great defense but it only works if you have a dominating nose tackle such as Vince Wilfork, Jamal Williams, Ted Washington or Casey Hampton. Now to go back to our linebackers, I think next year that Hobson and Thomas will not be on the team. Bryan Thomas has continued to show that he has no burst off the edge. Hobson is way to slow to play in a 3-4. Barton like Vilma has been killed by the 3-4 since the guards can get to them easily. Right now it doesn't really matter who is playing ILB, Ray Lewis would be mauled as well. So our defense has been killed by not having a nose tackle to keep bodies off of vilma and barton and the fact that thomas and Hobson have barely sniffed the qb. We can trash the secondary but the bottom line is that if you have no pass rush or ability to stop the run the secondary is pretty much useless since the qb will have all day to stand back there. The average nfl qb if he has 3 or 4 seconds will slice and dice any secondary. In conclusion, while I think the 3-4 is the long term answer I think for this team to be able to stop the run this year they need to switch to the 4-3. At least with Robertson, Moore, Kimo and Ellis playing 1 gaps they should be able to hold their own and give Vilma the oppurtunity to flow to the ball. I think on passing downs they need more plays with blitzes coming from Vilma, Rhodes and cornerbacks.
The main reason our defense has gone south.... They think they are snowbirds like the rest of the New Yorkersfftopic: Maybe instead of watching March of the Penguins they should watch something more inspiring, like House of 1000 Corpses or go to a Metal show and get out there and kick some Dolphin ass!
http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-TOTAL/2005/regular?sort_col_1=4 The Jets ranked 12th in defense last year despite no offense whichgave the Jets more defensive plays than any other NFL defense sace three. Jets were ranked 29th in total defensive plays. Mangini led the Patriots defense last year to a 26th rank, the worst in three decades for a Patriot team. Funny how a great offense (Brady) can mask an awfully poor coached defense.
I'd expect more from you...I can't help it if you guys have cheap ass monitors @ 800X600... :lol: But I agree w/ your point.. Goes back to the Point that we had a Top ranked D with these very players (-Kimo +Abe). Last Year Barton was out and we were on the field way too long. Really opens the eyes to just how valuable a Pass Rushing DE is. The rest of your point is right in line with what I said: "....in order to do it you need 3-4 personnel and right now that will equal major changes to the front 7" We definitely do Not have a D Line that is suited for the 3-4 but I feel the LB core is managable if they can address the line problem... Even more impressive, Go Back one more year to see what Donnie did with a Healthy squad ...
I liked Donnie. He didn't leave of his own volition. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2298563 But...he might not have wanted to stay anyway.
DH was the best DC we had since the tuna error. Manginni is trying to force the 3-4 with the wrong players. Its early so I think he can turn it around, also I dont think Sutton will be here next year (samething with a lot of players on the D) give it time people, this is a new team.
Absolutely 100% in agreement. Donnie Henderson was the heart and sole of the Defense. It wasn't Vilma, it wasn't Abraham, it wasn't Ellis. It was Henderson. He would yell, scream. He was in your face every time you made a mistake. He was down on the sideline working hands on. He taught a tough nosed defense. And im not saying i have anything against Sutton, because its not fair to judge him yet. But i do know under Henderson we were a much better defense. Especially against the run. And you can argue that Abraham left the defense so its not fair to compare. However, Abraham was awful against the run. He always got too high. That was his weakness. I was a big fan of him while he was here. He IS the main reason the defense is struggling
The D does not have a pass rush (john araham...yes i know)...and we are without a big NT to help Vilma and Robertson.
The point is - we are running a 3-4 long term. I hate it when any sports franchise hurts its future to be mediocre in the present. To me it is the same thing as going with an aging vet when a young up and comer can be getting valuable reps in a meaningless year. The players on the defensive side of the ball that will be here next year will have benefitted from the extra reps this year in the 3-4. We are taking one step back to take 2 steps forward. I am glad that we are going in the direction of the 3-4. I remember reading a good article detailing how the 3-4 is a more cost efficient scheme to run as compared to the 4-3. In a league with a hard salary cap this is not to be taken lightly.
Henderson was great in his first year, then medocre in his second. It was as if he had instructions to play it completely differently in year 2, because the defense never came close to its 2004 performance levels.
The main reason is the marriage to the 3-4. i liked Donnie and wanted him to saty BUt ask the Lions or Lions fans about how good donnie is and they'd give you a much different response. The Lions D has been atrocious.
Jeez, it takes time to fix all the broken parts, this year they obvoiusly fixed the part (O-Line) that was turning Chad into a third degree assault victim and it appears that has been the case..While they are trying to patch here in there on "D" it takes freakin TIME to build the team..Don't tell me about last year,Jets were just bad and gave up alot.Last week was an oddity, Chad will not play that bad the rest of the year and we all know that."Patience is a Virtue" and the team is moving in the right direction.
The D sucked every year under Herm except 04. In O4 we had a healthy veteran DT. We let him leave and never replaced him. By the way he was a 3/4 DT playing in a 4/3 to protect and allow both D'Rob and Vilma to run free. At the time we let him leave the spin on this board was he was good because D'Rob was takeing all the double teams. We now know that was complete BS, D'Rob can't even take on a single blocker let alone a double team. Ferguson healthy was the heart and soul of our 04 D.
