Just wanted to get the pulse of Jets nation on this. I feel right now this is really the thing lacking from our offense. Thomas Jones really isn't cutting it in my mind. A lot of people blame the O-line, but to me when Jones can't even average 3 yards a carry last week against the cardinals is pathetic. The cardinals did show some 8 man fronts, but with brett favre lighting it up u have to figure there were some holes to run through because the defense had to back off. Leon on the other hand averaged almost 4 yards a carry on 7 rushes. I think Jones just doesn't fit with the zone blocking scheme and chatman and leon should be our committee for this year. That's just my opinion. Thoughts?
simple answer, its a mix of all three. either you can tell by the defensive flow they knew where the ball was going. coaching in that case. or you see a defender fly through as soon as the ball hits jones hands. o line. or you see thomas jones smashing into a defender instead of looking for a cutback lane. theres just a lack of consistency in all phases. 4 games in though as Favre becomes more consistent in this offense i think itll open it up. those play actions that the cards kept biting on were a mix of players biting and favre turning his back completely to the d in a convincing fake. we can debate all we want about what, but one thing Ive been calling for forever is more carries for leon. id rather watch leon get 1-3 up the middle with the potential of him cutting it back for a long run instead of watching jones run into a pile 24 times a game. there was also that stat for jones career that he only gets better after 20 carries but with someone like leon and schotty scared of being labeled conservative i dont think we'll be seeing him feed anybody the ball. so he might as well get leon incorporated more. i still dont understand why we cant see a set with coles and leon split out on one side, cotchery the other, keller at TE and jones in a singleback. but actually one good thing to come is theyre finally going to 4 and 5 wide sets spreading the field. its only week 4 i say we can make official judgements on this team after we play 8 games.
A co-worker from our Chicago office is in town this week, he's a Bears fan. We open with Thomas Jones and I say I don't like how he goes down a lot on initial contact and he brought up a good point...Jones is durable as hell. He's always out there. That's all you can ask for as a basis for running game consistency. I believe it will come around.
I know I'm in the minority but I still think Jones is just fine. The idea that he always goes down on the first hit is an exaggeration IMO. He hits the hole hard when it's there and makes some good cut backs. He's not a game breaker or a goal line back but can do the grunt work between the 10's throughout the course of the season. Did you guys notice that Washington actually started the game against ARI? I wonder if that was significant or just part of the game plan.
I think it's on the OL mainly. The tackles, while much improved in pass blocking, are not very good run blocking, and DEs often screw plays up before they really get started.... Additionally, Mangold seems to have taken a small step back in all facets of his game from his rookie year, to last season, to this year... He's really not getting much of a push up front... With a little room to run, Jones can hit a decent sized hold, and fall forward. He can easily be a 4-4.5 YPC back with some good blocking.... It's up to the line
deff thomas jones .. wen leon washington runs, he does better, but hes just not a legit number 1 runningback
Legitimate question: Does it make sense to have a real bruising RB to make up for the smaller holes when your O-line is built for pass blocking?
I have said this one or twice in exaggeration but it's more of an effect of lack of effort in my mind, and other times just lack of balance/technique. He's a very strong-looking dude and you expect him to fight for every inch but he takes such odd angles against the tacklers that it defeats his leverage and balance and he doesn't really have a chance. I've seen him fight for yardage before, but it's not very common. He's a frustrating guy to watch sometimes, although he does pretty well running east to west. I just have no confidence in his between the tackles, even when there's a hole, he's leaning way too forward most times in anticipation of the first hit and sometimes goes down uncontested.
To me the main issue is that we have a finesse line w/ a power running back.Aside from being fantastic at pass protection, this OL has alot of guys good in open space, getting to the corner and the second level. What they aren't great at is close quarters in line blocking(w/ the exception of perhaps Woody and Mangold). That's the type of OL that TJ really needs to be a solid-to-elite RB. Jones would look great behind a Pittsburgh/Eagles type OL...Consequently, a speed guy like Willie parker or LT who can make a guy miss getting to the corner would look great behind the Jets OL. W/ that said, I believe the running game is gonna improve as the OL continues to gel and teams begin to fear the passing game more and more.
I think I'd prefer using a stellar blocking FB (like Richardson) with a RB who can really do some damage at the next level (like Washington or TJ occasionally)... You'll note from these first 4 games that we enjoy a lot more success when Richardson is in the backfield then when he isn't, as he acts essentially as a 6th OL, picking up the scraps that leak through our OL, and allowing the RBs to focus on making a move on the LBs. But I think it's a matter of preference. A really savvy, but smaller RB, ala Warrick Dunn could work great behind our line, because the technique is stellar, but the physical ability just isn't that great for power run blocking, so the holes aren't always where you expect them to be, but they usually exist. A guy who can get to the line quickly, and identify the seam, is the guy who's going to average 4 yards a pop behind this kind of line...
I think w/ a more athletic RB we'd see alot more pulling from Faneca and Brick, and more rushing to th second level for Moore(His greater strength)...we've got alot of guys who can get to spots in space. That's a major asset in this league..the problem is...the RB doesn't fit that style.
^ I agree 100%. Another factor we can't forget is that we have 3 guys who are often split out wide (Coles, Cotchery and Keller) who, for receivers, are excellent blockers. I'd love to see a RB in this offense run more off-tackles and stretch plays... A guy like Brick can seal a DE a lot easier than he can move him straight back, guys like Mangold and Faneca can pull and kick out very well, guys like Woody and Moore are good at filling for vacating OL, and the WRs can come down to help out with LBs flowing to the play... I think our personnel, minus the RB, fits this kind of play perfectly...
Very good observations. If only leon could put on 10 lbs and grew 3 inches...we'd have one helluva running game.
True. It's why I like McCoy or Moreno better than Wells for us. Especially McCoy...he could fit behind any O-line. And I can't believe this thread...blame, blame, blame...is that all there is to spread...
Am I the only one who doesn't think we are having problems? We just haven't decided to run the ball, we haven't run that badly when we have though, we just give up on it too quickly. The SD game Favre threw 46? passes....
Nice point and how I feel exactly about Jones contribution. He keeps a defense honest and being spelled by Leon whos can be a gamebreaker gives us a good solid run game which will get better.
So far I have seen no evidence that equates Thomas Jones to a power running back. He is a cutback runner who picks diagonal lanes and hopes to slash chunks of yardage out of the 10-yards target zone. When he gets held up and occasionally has the leverage against the tackler, he certainly fights for it... But power runners, the good ones, tend to have a low enough center of gravity to grind it out from 0-20 yards, in any direction the blocks take them, even if the blocks take them directly to some secondary tacklers - they consistently find the leverage to fight it out. They don't fall on their faces when they hit unexpected holes between the tackles, because delivering a punishing hit isn't such an eye-opener for them. They are the lunchpail backs, and Thomas Jones is a finesse tailback like our own Curtis Martin. There are hybrids who can break longer and faster ones through the middle, but Thomas Jones is not one of them. He anticipates the first contact and it limits his effectiveness.
