I am not a fan of either QB but I am usually a fan of PFF articles and I thought some might find this article interesting. http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/03/22/new-york-jets-sanchize-or-tebow-time/
They don't want the quarterback to run because they get hurt, Tebow played against the Pats with broken ribs and a bruised lung. Didn't see that in the article.
One glaring misconception is this one: The Broncos ran quite a mix on offense last year, and yes, they did run some option, but nowhere near as much as people think. A good portion of the offense was run from "traditional NFL sets" such as the I formation, or single back sets.
Could be because Tebow got injured while trying to pass from the pocket, and not from running the ball.
And also, he played the whole game. The idea that he wouldn't have been able to play the next week will go down in legend, but we'll actually never know. All we know for sure is that the guy has never missed a snap in his entire career due to injury. (Even that concussion he got in college, he had the bye week to recover). The pocket is one of the most dangerous places in football.
not to beat a dead horse, but how many QB's NOT named Tebow were hurt last year? It seemed like several teams had both their first and backup guy hurt at one time or another
They drop like flies. I think what people are trying to get at is a quarterback can't be a workhorse running back and still be an effective passer, within a particular game. Those hits in the pile are bound to reduce passing accuracy over four quarters. But instead they get all crossed up and start talking about injury, which is a fact of life for all players. Tebow has a way of making people argue like a girl. :smile:
to answer the effective passer argument I would point them at Cam Newton. I think what people are getting confused on is the difference between cant and hasnt in recent memory. Tebow is not an effective passer right now, may never be, but that doesnt mean it cant be done.
He didn't get hurt running vs. the Pats he got hurt when the atrocious Bronco pass blockers allowed a clean shot on him while he was in the pocket. The offense Denver ran had some options added in and those actually worked well most of the time. With Tebow there their running game improved as the defenders being aware of Tebow helped the RB. The problem with the Denver offense was the same before and after Tebow their OC was way too predictable you could almost always tell when they were going to run the ball. Their passing was limited lack of screens, dump-offs, crossing routes, spread sets, etc. It was too predictable and did not feature much diversity like say the Florida offense Tebow played in. The other drawback is Denver has the worst receivers in the NFL. Tebow didn't have much to work with.
Guess I could argue that Tebow did it for 4 years in the SEC, which has defenses that are closest to the NFL in terms of talent, speed and hard hitting.
The fact that Qb's can get hurt in the pocket does not dispute the fact that the risks of getting hurt go up when the Qb runs or otherwise leaves the pocket.
Not just "can get hurt in the pocket." Often do get hurt in the pocket. Happens a lot. I'm not sure it's beyond dispute that the "risks of getting hurt go up when the QB runs," if he knows what he's doing and is big like Cam and Tebow. Every player is different. To me, it's more of a "wear and tear" problem than a risk of catastrophic injury. I hope quarterbacks like Cam and RG3 continue to evolve the game by using their feet.
I don't know that I have ever read any scientific evidence that that is in fact true, IIRC Tebow himself stated the the hits he took in the pocket were way worse than the ones he took on the run. I hear a lot about how much more dangerous it is for QBs to run, but like I said haven't seen a study proving there is any truth to it
Sound article with the type of denialist comments that are Tebow fans specialty. Anybody else notice the two quarterbacks who ran the football most effectively were the two who had the least NFL experience? The pocket is so dangerous that Peyton Manning played 13 seasons before taking a significant injury that caused him to miss playing time. Tebow made it 13 games. Also rearing it's head is the myth that the Broncos offensive line didn't protect him. No mention that Tebow struggled to read defenses and looked to throw deep a large percentage of the time. Quarterbacks get hit in the NFL and Tebow showed last year that his playing style - running and holding the ball forever in the pocket - caused multiple injuries (shoulder, ribs, pectoral) that finished him as useful before the final whistle. The Broncos did rework their offense significantly to make Tebow viable. Trying to play him in a conventional offense led to the Detroit Massacre and the "Tebow <" thread on ESPN. Outright lies and the typical blame everybody but Tebow attitude prevail. Bad scheme, bad O line, worst receivers in football. You gotta love these people. From a distance, I mean, having them wearing your gear sucks really bad. Good luck Jets fans, get bent Tebowites.
Last season, purely as a passer, Tebow was the fourth-worst graded quarterback, better than only Blaine Gabbert, John Skelton and Mark Sanchez. But to off-set that (which few ever do) was the fact that he had young/inexperienced and/or crappy backup receivers and he made his team the #1 Rushing Team in the NFL. They also ALWAYS mention his Completion % but NEVER mention his TD/Int Ratio, Yds/Comp, or his W/L record as a starter. * Sanchez was the second-worst graded quarterback in the league last season (-27.9), beating only the catastrophic rookie season from Gabbert. His rating under pressure dropped from an already pretty wretched 51.9 to 37.4 as he became a deer in the headlights and was unable to make plays when under pressure. The Jets clearly have a major issue at quarterback, with Sanchez failing to develop the way they insisted he could. (and that's NOT coming from any Tebowmaniac) <> Tebow brings no media circus with him, that's an outright lie. The Media-Morons assemble 'their own circus' and then they take it with them wherever Tebow is, nothing Tim can do to stop it. The Jets know and understand this. They wanted it because they are the ones that set up Tim's initial press conference and then TOLD Tim to attend to it. Don't act like Tim's the one that called the press conference to advance himself. Plus he didn't make a dime extra for doing it, he just tried to stay 'excited' to be a Jet. ================ "I think what people are trying to get at is a quarterback can't be a workhorse running back and still be an effective passer, within a particular game. Those hits in the pile are bound to reduce passing accuracy over four quarters." Tebow's total run-pass stats from Pee-Wee all the way to the NFL would seem to contradict that claim. Only his Comp % dropped off at Denver and that was due in large part to what he had to work with. Name any other 2011 QB that had his #1 & #2 Veteran WR's traded away before coming in cold off the bench for a game 5 first start. Tebow's results depend a great deal on who he has as teammates. See 'Gators in the NFL' that played with Tebow at UF during his 4 years for some insight. The Pouncey Twins & Marcus Gilbert on his OL. C Mau Pouncey and OT Gilbert - Steelers OG/C Mike Pouncey - Dolphins WR Dallas Baker 6-3 207 rsSr 3L -- Steelers, currently with CFL Roughriders WR Jemalle Cornelius 5-11 185 rsSr 3L -- Bills, Colts, Cards, currently a FL HS Head Football coach. WR Andre Caldwell 6-1 203 rsJr 3L -- Bengals, (hired by Broncos after signing Peyton) WR Louis Murphy 6-2 197 So 1L -- Raiders WR David Nelson 6-5 206 rsFr -- Bills *Plus TE Cornelius Ingram 6-4 230 rsJr 1L -- Eagles, Lions, now with Broncos WR Riley Cooper 6-3 206 Fr -- Eagles WR Jarred Fayson 6-0 200 Fr -- Jr xfer to Illinois for playing time because of Harvin, - F/A to Saints, now with Colts WR/RB Percy Harvin 5-11 180 Fr -- Vikings *Plus TE Aaron Hernandez 6-2 256 07-Fr (#1 HS TE in the Nation) -- Pats Not to memtion the several great RB's that could both run and catch. Coached by a 2X National Coach of the Year. When Tim has 'equal talent' surrounding him and 'competent coaching,' he wins Championships while setting both Passing and Rushing Records. PS He has already set both Bronco and NFL Records in both Passing and Rushing! (but I've NEVER seen a single Media-Moron list them while carpping about Tim)
