now i made a thread like this before and it was ignored. but the biggest reason were giving running yards up the middle is because of the way our OLB's are lined up. its also the reason why we have no pass rush. and also why we dont see blitzes. our OLB's are lined up on the line of scrimmage. right over the tackles. hence no disguise of the pass rush. hobson and thomas are in a 2 point stance most of the time just bull rushing the OT's and getting no pressure. now we know our ILB's are getting tied up with lineman, if our OLB's were at least 2-3 yards behind our ends they would be able to provide assistance in the run game. instead, were running a weak version of the 5-2 basically. atop of that, since the OLB's are pretty much playing as down lineman, thats why there is no blitzing. the few times our OLB's have been given at least a few yards before they engage the OL and been called upon to blitz, we've seen few moments of success. we know weve got the wrong personnel for the 3-4, but the point of it is to stop the run and disguise the pass rush, which neither have been done. thoughts?
i agree..i think we have A LOT of personnel problems in trying to run the 3-4. For those reasons, our defense just doesn't resemble any other 3-4 in the league. We should be faster and be swarming, instead we are slow and spread out.
Good analysis. I agree, the insistence on playing the 3-4 in the face of the personnel they have is mind boggling. It's not like there's going to be any carryover to next year. Half of the front seven won't be hear next year anyway and they'll be starting over. The other issue with the way the Jets are playing the 3-4 is that they're not rushing a LB. they're only rushing 3. Parcells and Beli play the 3-4 so but they send at least 4 if not more men at the QB. Beli only rushes 3 in select instances as a surprise ploy, usually against a ferocious offense like the COLTS. For the Jets to only rush 3 vs. the Browns and allow Frye to get in a rhythm is unbelievably troubling.
The outside linebackers can definately be upgraded, most notably Victor Hobson... I'm just trying to figure out how Bryan Thomas has gotten so much publicity lately, some articles saying he will cash in this offseason. Not for nothing, but Thomas hasn't been great, or a gamebreaker for him to merit "big money" especially only half a year when he had 4 bad years... I don't like him much, and wouldn't mind letting him walk at all this offseason.
We also have no suitable NT- did anyone watch Wilfork play last night? I mean really study the guy? He consistenly moved his MEN 5 yards back into the play. This guy is going to be a premier NT for years to come.
A bit off topic but you just made me remember this. I was reading last weeks addition of Jets Confidential and they mentioned that the team came to an injury settlement with Tui Alailefaleula and then released him. With his size I thought he would be someone to watch next year at the NT position. Guess not...
You can look at the 3-4 this year as basically on the job training for Shaun Ellis, Jonathan Vilma, Eric Barton and maybe Bryan Thomas. Those are the guys that have a shot to be aorund next season in my opinion. KVO was a one year fix that didn't work. D-Rob has no skills to speak of and Hobson is just a terrible linebacker. It'll be interesting to see what priorities the Jets have in the draft next year. They're most likely to have a 12 to 16 type pick and that's not gonna get them a stud defensive lineman. A linebacker is a real possibility at that point in the first round though. Thomas will be back if he's willing to take a mid-range 4 year deal. Maybe averaging 2 million a year counting the signing bonus. If he wants more than that he's gonna have to go find some suckers out there willing to pay for a contract year that has not even been all that good. I mean he's played ok but nothing special and this is as good as it's been for him in the NFL.
The problem is, we do not have V. Wilfork, that guy holds the line of scrimmage on every down, even if he does not make the tackle, he allows the LB's to get the job done.
This situation is overblown. There are situations where they are playing a 4-3. I couldn't tell you what the ratio is so I will watch for it next game but it seems Sutton is trying to mix it up and disguise the D packages the best he can while still remaining committed to the 3-4 in the long run. The more you put in the more difficult it is to execute and I think that is the major reason for the problems we are having. Too much thinking out there and not enough aggression yet.
no im talking about when we run the 3-4. hobson is asked to engage the LT off the snap instead of having space to take an angle or build momentum. so hes just getting jammed at the line as soon as the play starts, same with thomas. im saying the way our 3-4 lines up, its basically a 5-2 with hobson and thomas at DE. which is why we dont have disguised blitzes and our OLB's become a non-factor against the run. i understand what your saying though. hopefully theyve gone back to the essentials during the bye week and can show some sort of improvement.
That's not true At all...... Look at last year's draft Ngata and Bunkley fell.... The year before Mike Patterson and Castillo Heck, Vince Wilfork went at 21!!!!!!! It all depends on what else in in the draft and it looks like this draft has a few QB's at the top as well as some RB's.....
Maybe the guy from Michigan can do the job. We might have a shot at him. And I would absolutely address defense with the first pick.
looking at the NCAA players, there aren't many NT's that stand out. however, there are several DE's and LB's that should be in our range. i think DE is just as much a priority as anything else on D. the way Seymour was getting into the backfield (by himself) last night was incredible. the guy i've been clamoring for is Gaines Adams from Clemson, though I don't know when he'll be selected. he's 6'5 but maybe a bit underweight at 265lbs. regardless, he's strong, relatively quick and has an endless motor (at least, from what i've seen). either way, i think a stud DE needs to be the first selection; then with those two R2 picks, we can take any combination of OL/LB, OL/NT, NT/LB, LB/LB. cheers
This year the 3-4 has stood for a few things with the Jets: 1) The number of average yards our opponent will get on darn near every running play even if their running back is not that good. 2) = -1 3) The average quarter our defense decides to get it in gear. 4) The number of key players our defense needs to be really good. 5) The average number of yards I have seen our defensive line get pushed back by the opposing team at the goal line. I don't like to be a Jets boo hisser, but defensively there has been little to get excited about this year (as a team unit).
Our problem with the 3-4 is simple, it's everything. Mangini has to learn to play to his team's strength and that's the 4-3. He doesn't have to be like Bill or Romeo and run a 3-4 because they are running one as well. He's the HEAD COACH of the NEW YORK JETS and hopefully this time next year the DEFENSE won't be a problem and the JETS will be playing a 4-3.
i don't think he's doing it to emulate those guys. i think, in general, the 3-4 is a better Defense with the proper personnel. we have a few guys who fit, most who don't. so Mangini has chosen to teach the 3-4 to the players who fit, who will be around in the future to lessen the learning curve. cheers
Hobson is slower than you-know-what. He looks big enough to play inside. I am surprised he is an outside backer.
Our defense sucks because the players suck regardless of the 3-4 of 4-3. Do you think any other team would be scared of the jets defense in a 4-3? The bottom line is that all good defenses 3-4 or 4-3 start with disruptive defensive lineman who disrupt the flow of the offense. The Patriots year after year draft defensive lineman early in the draft. The Steelers have Casey Hampton, Aaron Smith and Brett Keisel. The Chargers have Jamal Williams and Castillo. The Jets have Dewayne Robertson, Rashad Moore, Sean Ellis (hasn't tried since he got the contract), Kimo, who is a nice player but needs other good players around him. Other then that we have guys like Dave Ball and Bobby Hamilton who are just short term role players. If you look around the league their are very few teams that are good that don't have good deep defensive lines. The Broncos don't have great individual players but they rotate a ton of guys and they are very disciplined and they probably have one of the best linebacking groups in the league. If they had a better defensive line they would be that much more difficult to move the ball on. The Jags have a great defensive line, the colts may not be good against the run, but their pass rush with Freeney is scary. In a 3-4 defense if you have the ability to put 3 down lineman on the field who are disruptive then the guys behind them don't have to be superstars. Now if you have another 3 guys you can rotate in that makes the offensive linemans day that much more difficult. Once you have that ability to cause problems with the 3 down lineman you don't have to have great athletic linebackers behind them you just need smart players that can do their role and stay within their assignment. The Pats middle linebackers are never going to be pro bowl players, they have a role and they do it. With that being said the OLB's after the down lineman are extremely important. Joey Porter, Clark Haggans, Mcginest, Merriman, Ware, 3-4 defenses need outside linebackers who are about 6-4 250. They have to be able to a) take on tight ends, tackles and fullbacks against the run b) drop into coverage c) use their speed to beat a tackle around the edge or their power to break a block and get into the backfield. It's a much different position then playing DE in a 4-3. Now if we look at the Jets outside linebackers, Bryan Thomas and Vic Hobson are both solid against the run, neither one is fluid enough to drop into coverage, and I think we all know that neither of those guys can get pressure on any qb. The middle linebackers aren't really worth discussing at this point, because of our horrible defensive line, whoever is playing MLB is getting mauled by a guard on most plays. I do think that Barton and Vilma with the right players in front of them can do the job. I think next year Vilma and Schlegel will be the starting MLB's. In conclusion within 2 years almost every player in our front 7 will be gone. The Jets need to utilize free agency to find defensive lineman for next year. The need to use the draft to find outside linebackers and defensive lineman for the future.
