Total BS. Herm made 3 playoff appearences in 5 years, I can't take that away from him. However, he didn't manage the roster well and burned a huge bridge when he left for Kansas City - I know the team let him leave but the second the KC job came up he was all over it and he was not going to let anything stop him. I can't hate him for trying to get out of his contract to follow his mentor but all of the assurances about being committed to the Jets during the last few press conferences and his many assertions about integrity and being held accountable while firing his coordinators when things were going poorly didn't exactly fit together - don't try and bring up Paul Hackett to defend Herm either, he was there because he ran the offense Herm wanted to run. Randolf helped improve the Mets to a vast degree. And Edjr, I'm sorry but if a player nees to be motivated by his manager to play a child's game for millions of dollars a year then that player should be feeling the heat more so than the manager. Still, the door swings both ways and if the same roster, plus/minus one or two players, that he took to the NCLS one year suffers a huge breakdown druing the stretch the next year then he deserves as much criticism for that failing as he does for the success. That's why those two have gotten so much heat recently. As for Isiah, he doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence with those two. Isiah is to the Knicks what Kotite was to the Jets x10. He ruined the team financially and put together a roster that didn't even fit with itself. I guarantee you that at least half of those players will be excised by the time next season starts. To top it off, he coached for the team with the most snobbish groop of basketball fans on the east coast - I grew up a Knicks fan and the Garden was mentioned with the same breath as Mecca. If I were Willie I would not be putting my name next to this piece of shite.
Reverse Racism, anyone? Not me! There's no such thing! But... On the other hand... Okay, I am perhaps about to make a few friends I do not want and some enemies I do not deserve: Isiah Thomas is/was a reverse racist, which makes him the worst kind of racist scum. The people who cry "racism" at every turn are usually guilty of the same crime, just look up the history. And this jerk was prominent among them. Isiah Thomas is such a total tool that any statement he might have made about racism should be immediately dismissed. His sexist behavior should give him the same credibility that OJ Simpson has regarding race or any other matter. No one should refer to Isiah Thomas's opinions when it comes to matters of race because he has no credibility. On the other hand, Herm Edwards was a very good coach (not a great coach, just an imperfect man who worked very hard) for the NY Jets. Do I detect a hint of racism on this very message board when I defend him? Hell, yeah. Did I see very obvious racism from NY Yankees fans in 1985 in Yankee Stadium stands when Donnie "The White Man" Mattingly went up against Dave "The Black Man" Winfield when they were both competing for the batting title? Hell yeah! Anyone who denies that there is a lot of racism in New York sports is a liar or a fool. On the other hand, if someone wants to use "racism" as a tool to prop up bad performances by NYC coaches/managers, then they need to be taken to the whipping post. That said, Willie Randolph should be be given a break. It's too early in the season to determine if he is a good manager for the Mets or not. On the other hand, after the team's performace last year, he should be given a short leash--until the all Star Break IMO. One more thing... Remember Ted Cottrell? How many Jets fans thought he was an idiot because of his skin color, and not because if his lousy defensive schemes? Not many, I would bet. Racism is alive, but not well, in New York Sports. In fact, if I was in charge of the Environmental Committee in charge of Endangered Species, I would place it on the critical list. It is near extinct, thankfully.
Race may have been a factor to some people, but far from the only reason people would pull for Mattingly over Winfield. People pulled for Mantle over Marris and they were both white, don't get me wrong people are racist, but in these cases general popularity comes into play for non racists.
i didnt read any of this or the posts cuz the topic is redundant. but theres no such thing as reverse racism. racism is racism.
Racism in NYC Sorry, Jade Green, but I was at Yankee Stadium too many days that year (1985) when I heard too many racist, anti-Winfield comments to agree with you. It was shocking and terrible to me at the time, and just one more reason I stopped rooting for the Yankees. Was Reggie Jackson really that beloved by Yankee fans? No. I heard many anti-Reggie statements at the same time. Oscar Gamble? Mickey Rivers? Rickey Henderson? These are some of my favorite Yankee players of all time! But the comments I heard in the stands? Reprehensible. And to Coach K: "Reverse racism" is a term used to refer to minority prejudice against white people. I am sorry if you never heard it before, or perhaps you prefer to dismiss its existence, but believe me, it does exist, and it is as ugly as any form of racism. I think the term was used, way back when, to remind people that racism is not always "whites against blacks," which was how "racism" was too often defined during the 1960s & '70s... "Reverse racism" can refer to racial hatred of blacks against whites, Hispanics against blacks, Asians against whites, blacks, or other Asians, etc. etc. It's a term that can remind people that racism is not always a majority of a population (white people in the USA) against minorities (everyone else in the USA). Peace and love to all races, people and animals of the planet, (Not that I am a hippie--mostly to get everyone off my back!) --Bosko
I hear that Bosko and I know there are racist people, but those people in Yankee Stadium do not represent everybody. Despite what racist comments were made, there were plenty of other reasons for non racists to pull for Donnie Baseball. I for one liked both players and would be just as happy for either one and was pulling for both. :grin:
Racism exists in NY sports just like in every city. White fans, or fans of any other race for that matter, are going to continue to use the n-word when refering to black players/coaches/managers they don't like and similar words for every other race so long as they disappoint. The question here is whether or not Willie Randolf, Herman Edwards, Isiah Thomas were criticized totally under that criterium. The answer here is no. I'm not doubting that race played a part in some of the critcisms and assumptions of their short-commings but there is still the fact that all three coached in one of the most demanding cities in the country. Throw in the fact that one was completely inept (Isiah), one proved himself to be a flawed liar who couldn't assume the accountability he preached (Herm) and one presided over one of the greatest melt-downs in baseball (Willie) and you have a situation where each one of these guys is going to get completely lambasted by the press. Are Willie & Co. thes victim of racism? Yes, in the eyes of some to alot of their fans. Is the media's criticism racially motivated? No. The cardinal sin in New York is failure and all three have produced it to some degree. You fuck up in this city and everyone with a publisher will eat you alive.
Sorry but not every fan is going to resort to racial slurs, if a player is not performing well, yes some will but not all people are racist. Also it is fair to point out there have been very few minority head coaches or GM's in NY, there have been a few but not many. I think that is something that always comes into play when race is brought up like this.
Fans want to win, I like Willie but his teams have underachieved the last year and a half(plus they choked against SL in the '06 NLCS). It's not a black/white issue just like it wasn't w/ Herm or isaiah. W/ herm the press was usually fair, it was the fans who hated him. How in the World can he bring up Isaiah? he's been nothing but a disaster, race may have saved his job another year.
Good point. Racism isn't something that was invented the first time a white person and a black person came into contact. It's been around since the first time two people from different ethnic groups came into contact.
I am so sick of reading garbage like this. This is New York. It is a tough sports city, with demanding expectations. What ever happened to any coach in this city, it is because it was well earned!!!!!!!
You are in NY, the media capital of the world, you know this Willie, you know how the NY media is. Sad statement from a guy who knows his seat is getting hotter.
The whole race thing is bullshit, in sports, in entertainment and in every day life. Every fuck up finds a conspiracy theory as to why they can't succeed because in their own little world they think they're the best. Herm was a fuck up. He won a couple of playoff games.....yay. I filled out my invoice sheet great this week, everyone applaud me! Isiah is fucking dreadful. Everywhere he's gone he's been dreadful...why? Because he's always been black....fucking duh.
The NY media would trade Mangini for Herm in a second. With Herm they got personable, quotable, even occasionally lovable. With Mangini they get secretive, bland and boring.
This is what burns me. No-one will ever dispute that being seen through a certain filter is an invalid concern. Ever. Visit this. Woman, dumb. Black woman, dumber still. See Dr. Condoleeza Rice. I personally cannot believe how people saw fit to disparage her in the most racist ways ever without being called the sc*mbags that they are. The horrid cartoons, et al. All because she elevated herself through gumption and brains? Her bad. And yeah, I despise Hillary Clinton. Because I hate her ideas. I empathize with Willie's outburst, and I hear from whence it stems; but as to sports, winning is all that matters in New York. I embraced Herman Edwards, and thought a black coach in NY was a gratifying thing. He blew it because he blew it, not because he's black. I see the struggle and why black coaches are stymied. Ask Norm Chow. This IS the land of opportunity. We're imperfect, but we'll never stop trying. And that's what it's all about.
Wow...you should give inspirational speeches On another topic...and I've been seeing this a bunch lately, so I don't mean to single you out. There seems to be a lot of poetic revisionist history as far as herm is concerned. He didn't blow it. He wasn't run out of town. He wasn't fired. He decided to leave. Despite the good will of ownership, fans, and the media...he left us, not the other way around. Say what you want about his shortcomings and missed opportunities, but at the time of his departure, most of us were upset, myself included. While it is always nice to say we broke up with him...the truth is, he broke up with us. Deal with it.
