Ellis - Herm told him to come to training camp heavier to play inside in the 4-3. Ellis did EXACTLY what Herm said. When he tried to play inside, it was obvious from the start he wasn't comfortable there. Instead of working with him and encouraging him, Herm publicly complained that Ellis looked too big and slow. Well HELL, didn't Herm tell him to put on the pounds to play inside? Wasn't he a DE in college who NEVER played DT? Obviously he wasn't comfortable. But, instead of EITHER working with him and sticking to the plan, OR moving him back and taking the heat for the mistake in the move, HERM threw Ellis UNDER THE BUS! Herm spent the entire season complaining that Ellis - who he now moved back to DE - was too heavy to be an effective DE. Damn HERM, didn't you ask him to bulk up? Did you expect him to slim down overnight when you gave up on the experiment? Ellis worked his ass off to gain weight, then to lose it...in the course of a few months time. All you did was publicly blast him all season long. Pennington - You can debate all you want about Chad...IMO the only reason Chad got into a game was because Vinny got hurt...things were falling apart for HERM, and everyone was on his case to make a QB change. If Vinny doesn't go down, Herm would have likely stuck with Testeverde and the season would have been lost. Chad saved Herm's job...and that's the reason Herm became Chad's biggest cheerleader. Up until that time, all Herm did was rag on Pennington's progress and abilities to the media and fans. Santana Moss became a Pro Bowl WR under Joe Gibbs...??? Funny, but two young guys with talent left for FA and more money...both Jordan and McKenzie split Hofstra (I like saying Hofstra as long as we still can) despite playing for a guy everyone supposedly LOVES to play for. McKenzie was a financial decision, but Jordan wasn't handled at all properly by Herm during his tenure here. Herm was and is very good at throwing other people under the bus. Hackett, Cottrell, Assistant Coaches, Players...you name it. It's NEVER EVER his fault. Now he says he had no idea what he was getting into in KC? Sounds like a planned excuse...from the Master. I love Mangini...he hasn't come out and made any Preacher Speeches...and for that, I'm on the band wagon already.
No just like Brady would have taken over for Bledsoe even if Mo didn't hurt him Chad would have ben in by the KC game even if Vinny didn't go down. Remember cahd came in and we still lost 28-3 and Vinny played a play then was healthy for the next game and he started Chad. Chad was a PB alternate under Herm in '03. It's not a coincidence that the 2 years Santana has been healthy were his 2 best years ('03 & '05). Kareem was overpaid by the Giants and lamont wanted to start. Lamont was drafted to take over for Curtis but Curtis kept playing at a high level and from lamont's 1st year as a starter we could see why he was not playing in front of Curtis.
Moss's 2005 was nearly 400 yards better than his 2003 season. I don't see any basis for comparison there. That's nearly a 40% increase in yardage production. Herm only played younger guys when it was obvious that he didn't have any other choice.
People are really scraping the bottom of the barrel to try to justify Herm as anything more than a cheerleader.... So, a few TALENTED players continued to play well and continued to keep the team "Good"... Meanwhile, IF ANYTHING, Herm was supposed to "specialize" in Defensive backs, I didn't see many miracles back there - Not like what the Patriots did with their secondary.... Our secondary was barely even tested as well cuz teams at times could just run it down our throats or play short ball cuz the offense was so bad. And we all know we can't really get into Field Decisions or Game planning and adjustments cuz both were utterly pathetic. STEP 1 Which Mangini stated just this week, is to have ap lan and stick to your guns... Herm had no plan, had no offense, had no defense and was just took on a few guys he heard were good that Bradway liked - Then he scapegoated them and radically changed the system - He installs drastically different system while keeping older vets and then changes it again - Just reaching for air is Herm... Grasping.... For the life of me I don't know why he was a candidate for a HC in the 1st place and I know the ONLY job he could get after here was with his buddy in KC - Herm probably knew that a bit - If he stayed here he would probably be 1 and DONE and have no team out there to ever be a HC for again... His decision to cut and run was a No Brainer - At least he gets credit for seeing THAT much - Nice pay day Herm.... And I don't hate the guy - seems liek a great Human being - I think he would make a remarkable HC at a HS or small college where he can REALLY preach and influence lives of young kids... He would really have an impact on this world if he found his calling and worked with kids.
When this site becomes TheKingHenry.com you can start telling people what and what not to do. No one gives two Sh!ts about your pet peeves. ROFLMAO!! :rofl:
How long did it take you to think that one up? I don't see how junc and I are "scraping the bottom of the barrel." You say that Herm is nothing more than a cheerleader, I say that he coached 3 playoff teams. You say that he never did anything good for our defensive backfield, I say that he brought in Donnie Abraham who gave us some great years and then picked up David Barrett (who was steady all 2004 and shut down Plaxico Burress in the playoffs) and drafted Eric Coleman, Kerry Rhodes and Justin Miller, all of whom prominently figure into our defense next season. If you just don't like the guy personally fine. I'm not going to sit here and try to change your opinions. But if you are gonna continue to make stuff up to try and make him look like a worse coach it is just sad.
OK - Herm is nothing more than a cheerleader who happened to coach 3 playoff teams...is that inconsistent? No... Donnie Abraham NEVER in his LIFE had GREAT years in the NFL. If anything he was a solid guy and contributor. Oh, and Herm also brough in Damien Robinson for that purpose and that was a miserable failure. Oh, and anyone remember Robinson taking his high powered rifle and ammo into a game shortly after 9/11? BRILLIANT! Was David Barrett EVER steady? He's the definition of inconsistent, great one play toast the next. Miller and Colemand and Rhodes will all improve now that Herm has left. None of them has show progress like they should. Again, 3 playoff teams coached and still a cheerleader, who won't hesitate to throw you and anyone else under the bus, and then leave town before the police arrive.
You respond to that, but earlier in the thread (while u were spewing your Herm love) I asked you a question regarding some of your comments which you chose to ignore. One can only assume you had no "quick comeback" for that. :grin: Anyway, talking to you is pointless. It's obvious by reading some of your banter in this thread.
I'm with Green Guy on this... And overall I tend to agree with GG on a lot of issues - One of the posters I really respect here... Just saying "Donnie Abraham had great years" certainly doesn't make it true... Any of us can keep repeating our OPINIONS but, they will remain opinions. And again... Developing players - IF you actually believe he had any impact on that over and above the talent these players brought to the table to begin with, is only 1 aspect of being a Head coach - That's why I refered to the bottom of the barrel cuz we already know he's not a clock Whiz, a game day coach, a game planner or an adjustment maker......IF ANYTHING the guy better relate to players cuz you'd be in trouble to come up with another strength. I happen to be of the belief and GREAT HOPE that Mangini and the things the Pats did with their secondary and defense will show up here and we'll see some REAL development in the near future in players and an actual scheme and plan - especially on defense..... Donnie Henderson is the one who made a real impact that we could see. I think you guys blow over the whole Cover-2 Hybrid defense with Cotrells hands behind his back DISASTER and Ellis being switched out of position when just Having a concrete plan and implementing a Defensive Philosophy from day 1 could have been the difference between barely making the playoffs and making some real waves. If the team was really Ready to "Win Now", like they claimed then a good HC would have put his players in position to succeed and set up systems that fit their strengths... I know I know - You consider what they did a "Success" - How can I argue with that other to say that my standards are a llittle higher than comparing those years to Jet history and I can objectively look beyond a W/L record to form an opinion on what I beleive they could have accoplished in the age of parity with a veteran team. And Playoffs or not, don't tell me that hybrid defense Mumble Jumble garbage they messed around with had that defense playing at it's optimal level - Or that a Win Now team should implement an Offense that everyone says takes 3 years to grasp.... ISN"T THAT JUST A LITTLE CRAZY? And Mind you they implemented the WCO when they had Vinny as the QB and didn't know what to do with Chad, so basically they stepped in Dog yummy when the Offense they grasped out of the air happened to fit in with what Chad could do - Remember they forced that offense all on Vinny.... Yeah, they made the playoffs - I think they half-stepped it though and should have "GONE FOR IT" running systems that more perfectly fit the Veterans OR they should have ripped it all apart if they were going to drastically change systems...... But, In your opinion The DID succeed.... Well, I can't help you there... I'm looking for bigger and better things regardless of what the Jets past has been.....
Does Herm Motivate Players - YES Does Herm have a grasp of schemes and game plans that Inspires players like Bellichik :LOL: THAT is the difference - Yeah, I'm sure players want to run through a wall for the guy - But, what a BB coach brings is Knowledge that makes players thirsty to grasp the plan for the week and the next opponent.... I'm sure a lot of player played hard and tried hard - WE NEED SYSTEMS _ WE NEED PLANS and WE NEED ADJUSTEMENTS...... not to mention someone who grasps the time clock and game decsions... I'll never forget the look Herm gets on his face when a decision has to be made and a runs up and down the sideline looking for help from his coaches....
Adding my 2 cents, you use the fact that Edwards made the playoffs 3 out of 5 years to definitively say that he is a great coach. Bottom line is, you can never know how good that same team would have been under a different coach. You could just as easily say that the team won in spite of Coach Edwards. There is little doubt in my mind that Edwards had good interpersonal skills. Listening to him speak, he seemed down to earth and affable (much like a certain politician in some power in the US government today). However, in a coach, you are not looking for a politician; you are, understandably, looking for a coach. Judging by some of Herman's actions (specifically the move of Ellis to DT and the constant shift of systems by placing blame on coordinators), I sense an aura of unpreparedness for real coaching decisions and underhanded political jockeying for position. I could be wrong, because I have never met the man, but that is just the sense that I get from him. I hope I don't sound too sour grapes. I'm open to any instances in which you think Coach Edwards made a good coaching decision.
Which post? I'd be glad to answer it now (even though my response will probably be the same as my response to all of the other posts in this thread given that all of these attacks are exactly the same with exactly the same flaws.) That's the whole problem isn't it. All of these arguements against Herm are based on speculation. Can we just as easily say that the Jets would've done better without Herm? Yeah, sure. But we don't know that. We do know that they did well with Herm running the show. BTW Jet Blue your last post was a very good one (even though I don't agree with a lot of your points.)
Well, actually your argument constantly seems to be that Herm DID develop our younger players. Fine, you (and some others) see it one way, some of us see it a different way. We can agree to disagree on that subject. Other than that, I'm not really sure what your stance is on him as an actual coach. Explain to me why exactly you want us to just refrain from knocking this guy again? We have all the right in the world to knock him right now. It's the offseason. We're simply looking back on the guys tenure here and expressing our feelings. If folks are still harping on Herm 12 months from now, then I could see you coming on here and saying "ok enough is enough". But let us blow off some steam for christ's sake! And I'll locate that question for you.....
