All the rumours and theories about who the Jets might take, or should take, should not obscure the facts of the roster as it currently stands: 1) THE JETS HAVE NO PASS RUSH AT THE MOMENT. Jenkins may help by pushing the middle and Pace may help, but he's still a big question mark, and now we're hearing that he's more of an overall LB, less a pash rushing specialist. That leaves the 2008 squad with the same pass rush as 2007, which was ZERO. If Gholston is there, and the Jets believe he's worthy, then he should be the pick. Without a pass rush, this team is doing nothing. However.... 2) THE JETS ALSO HAVE SIGNIFICANT HOLES AT CB & SAFETY, AND THEY ONLY HAVE 2 SATURDAY DRAFT PICKS. Elam and Poteat might be able to fill the CB slot, but it would be better to get a equivalent talent opposite Revis. If Gholston is not there, and the Jets can pick up a 3rd first-day pick by trading down, they would do well to rely on their scouting to unearth some Pro Bowl gems outside the top 10 and try and fill some of the many holes they have.
I bet we do have a pass rush. Not a great pass rush, but anyone who expects a great pass rush just might be crazy. Thomas can blitz. Harris can blitz. Jenkins can penetrate. Ellis has gotten sacks. Pace can blitz. So how do we not have a pass rush? Cause we don't have one big name guy whose one job is to rush the passer?
The sack total is likely to rise if Jenkins can clog the middle as expected. Hopefully we'll see more 3rd and longs and teams will be forced to attack through the air more. Teams never had to do that last season, so the sack total was a result of both an inferior pass rush and lack of opportunities. Playing from behind doesn't help either. That said, yes, I'd like to see the Jets get a guy who's job is to rush the passer. A guy who can produce around 10 sacks a year. A guy that needs to be game planned for. No reason not to want a guy like that on the team.
Because we had this same group of guys (and Robertson is just as good at getting after the QB as Jenkins is, although Jenkins is a BIG step up against the run) and haven't added anyone who is going to significantly improve our rush.... As a team, we had 29 sacks last year.... Dewayne Robertson accounted for 4 of them. I don't expect any more than that from Jenkins... Hobson is as good as gone. Thomas is a non-threat. Ellis is hot and cold. Coleman is worthless as a passrusher. Barton and Harris are both pretty decent blitzers, but ILBs aren't the guys you rely on for consistent pressure. It doesn't look like Pace is going to give our pass rush too much it doesn't already have. Quite frankly, last year David Bowens was as effective a passrusher as anyone we had- no matter where we lined him up.... But we need to improve.... Whether it's by adding personnel, or by having Mangini & Co coach these guys into being better at getting after the QB.... I don't know how one can argue otherwise....
I think we have probably moved into the middle of the pack in terms of Pass Rush. Jenkins is going to help ALOT in terms of pass rushers. Our pass rushers were being doubled constantly last year because we didn't have anyone at NT to occupy blockers. Toss Calvin Pace into the mix and our pass rush is getting much better.
with your asessment of our team, after all these moves we've made, it's a wonder we won ANY games last season. while i agree we need upgrades at the positions you've mentioned, i don't see you taking into account how much better these additions will make guys like ellis, thomas, barton(still need to upgrade), etc.while i agree, nobody will confuse us with the giants, in terms of rushing the passer, we still are going to make some eyes open this season.
i don't think mangini is done building his D yet... if we go D w/ #6, then 36 will be a WR... but if we go DMC or trade down and O, then i see us getting a OLB/CB with the 36, like Cliff Avril
This is an important point. An improvement in the rush defense (which Jenkins should bring) will have a kock-on effect, forcing teams into more obvious passing downs, where the Jets will be able to bring more heat and get more pressures and sacks. Everything is connected.
Jets fans need to relax. We will have a pass rush, at least as good as last season. While I completely agree we need a serious upgrade there, we would survive if we traded down and picked up a WR like Limas Sweed and or a CB like Rodgers-Cromartie or Mike Jenkins...
You're ignoring the whole team and assembly line-esque aspect of football. If Jenkins eats up multiple blockers like DRob could never do consistently then our DEs jobs gets easier. Coleman and Ellis improve at doing their job and suddenly we have alot more mobility at LBer. Then theres the versatility of our LBers. Thomas was used alot last year in coverage, and isn't terrible at it. '06 showed he could be a good pass rusher and solid against the run. Harris is good at stuffing the run, blitzing, and he's not terrible in coverage. Pace is excellent in coverage, good against the run, and solid at blitzing. Plus theres still one of Long, Gholston, Avril, Groves, Crable, Harvey, Ellis, or *someone* in the draft. All of our LBers should be able to do anything we ask them too, and when they're asked to blitz improved lineplay alone should increase the numbers. Why oversimplify what they're doing? 1. Pass rush isn't just sacks. Not that I don't think we'll see more. 2. That paragraph about our LBers offered some weak analysis. It basically went "Bowens is OK, Thomas sucks, Barton/Harris are good but we can't blitz them because traditionally ILBs don't get alot of sacks, and Pace only had 6 sacks so he can't be *that* good." I expect that kind of stuff from the media, not people who spend time on message boards where people do take the time to actually think about what makes a team. It's not rocket science at all. Theres a good chance we'll draft a LBer and DL help in the draft. We've already improved both as it is. How can our pass rush *not* be improved? Kris Jenkins is a big key here, but I think he'll be a good player for us.
They can't pick up a third first day pick so just forget the whole thing. To just assume they have no better pass rush than last year because you consider Pace a question mark and Jenkins whatever you consider him is just as ridiculous. Actually this whole thread is ridiculous and the title was face the facts and then you proceeded to put no facts out there. The one clear fact you avoided is that the biggest need this team has right now is QB and anybody in the NFL would agree with that. Unfortunately it won't get fixed anytime soon.
kock-what effect? :lol: Seriously though I agree too. Stopping the run and setting up 3rd and long situations will be a huge step in the right direction for the Jets. After all is said and done this year I expect BT and Pace to have had a solid year getting after the QB.
If they trade #6 to the Cowboys (another rumor), they would have 3 on Saturday. Maybe it's all conjecture...maybe our guys will get better with the no additions...but at the end of the day, who's the one guy in the front 7 the opposition if game-planning around? If you offer up anybody right now, you're kidding yourself.
Thats the thing, this defense doesn't want that. Whose the one guy in the front seven the opposition is game planning around for the Pats? You can't, cause you'd be missing out on the other 6 guys who can do significant damage. Plus, we're not even done with the offseason...
Ok...and what prospect in this draft is gonna come in as a rookie and be that guy? If you offer up any of them you're kidding yourself.
Almost all our pressure last year had to come on outside blitzes. With Jenkins taking up blockers we will be able to blitz up the middle which by itself will make a huge difference. It would be nice to add a pure outside pass rusher to the D but I don't believe we will be close to as bad putting pressure on as we were last year if Jenkins comes to play.
pace had 6.5 sacks last season for AZ, and although I expect him to get double digit sacks in '08, even if he only gets the same 6.5 again, it's still more than hobson's 2.5. and it's more than sacks - pressures and knockdowns are very effective at rattling the qb and hobson barely laid a hand on qb's last season and on bryan thomas, i think he's a lazy piece of sh*t (or at least he was in '07), but he'll be a lot better with a better overall front 7. we added jenkins and now all we need is a stud ilb to play next to harris. i really think that bt will produce more sacks next season with better players surrounding him. on cb, completely agree that it's a major need that has to be filled. letting dyson and poteat walk were real head scratchers...
