Don't give it too much thought. Don apparently still believes the world is flat like a pancake and not round like a globe. :grin:
This is nothing more than wishful thinking, there is no actual evidence to support your no question about it claim. While it may end up to be true there certainly is a question about it as he was absolutely dreadful last year, even on the rare occasions he did have time to throw the ball. It may be all because of the line but it also may be because he just isnt that good, we'll know more about that this season but unfortunately at this point in time we have no clue.
No evidence? Are you really serious? Statistically, the Jets had one of the worst offensive lines in football last year! How can that not hurt a first year starter at QB? I can't believe the board almost as a whole doesn't grasp this. NO BLOCKING=NO OFFENSE
I didnt say it didnt hurt our first year starter at QB, I'm just not naive enough to gaurantee that was the only problem. I have seen QBs fail when they have had a good OL and have seen nothing from Clemens to support your no question about it claim. Contrary to what you may believe there is certainly a question of whether or not Clemens can be the franchise QB this team needs. No blanket statements from a poster is going to change that.
The original post stated by Don was that Kellen Clemens was a bust and was completely inaccurate. I argued that you can't prove that yet. It is too early in his development and has not had the supporting cast esspecially on the oline. I agree, that having fixed the oline doesn't gaurantee Clemens success. Never said that it would. But now that we have fixed it, we can appropriately access where he stands this season.
You have seen QB's fail when they have good O-Lines? Do you care to name some? For the most part, I have seen QB's flourish behind good O-Lines. Which is what we have now. I'm not 100% confident that Clemens will be anything near a savior or anything. But, he woke up this March with a vastly improved O-Line. Now that he has had time to get his feet wet and see to the speed of the game, he will benefit from an O-Line that will actually allow him to adjust to the speed of the game. Tom Brady bounced balls in the Superbowl.
chad may have completed 20% more of his passes but, they are 3 yard ducks! Lets be real CHAD BLOWS at this point in his career. Maybe its the injuries, but I remember every good defense Killed him come playoff time, when he was healthy or pre-injury chad or what ever you chadwick lovers wanna call him! I think curtis Martin should sue him for getting him killed, if he could just throw a 20 yard pass( not a duck) the defenses would have to play honest, not always play up! They do it cause he is weak and they can jump most of the routes the recievers run because his passes are thrown so slow, or high that you actually have to wait for them to come down! Coles has concussions because of this and Im sure he has said if chad is the qb I want a new contract and it better be guaranteed cause Im getting killed out there.
And Clemens, he of the rocket arm, had a pass returned for a TD against the Cowboys on a pass where the CB jumped the route. Arm strength isn't everything.
Ryan Leaf could have had 2 O-Lines protecting him and he would still suck. He was a pure headcase and could not handle being a 2nd overall pick. The pressure was too much and he was a big baby who wet his pants and cried about eveything. Put a woman behind center and you get Ryan Leaf.
Yes everyone throws pick 6's. Even the great Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. But the point is that a CB can catch up to Chad's throw with ease. He won't have the same time to catch up with Kellen. Kellen read the D wrong and threw a pick 6 in the Dallas game. Chad read the defense correctly, but his noodle arm caused the ball to sail and not get there in time and the CB caught up and pick 6'ed the ball and put the nail in the coffin for the end of the game.
I don't remember him having a horrible OL. Maybe it wasn't great, but average. Still he was a top pick that sucked pretty bad. Rick Mirer is another. And I really don't remember his OL either, but even down the road with other teams including ours he sucked something awful.
Okay so 2 QB's in your vast knowledge of football failed. And you don't know anything about their O-Lines. Lines are what fuels teams. New England's O-Line ate a bad breakfast or something that Sunday in February, and they looked worse than they had all season. Tom Brady looked marginal. Everyone is so astounded at Tom Brady and Peyton Manning's greatness, but they would have sucky ass days too if their O-Lines were ever a liability, but they are not, so the respective QB's have a figuratively glass ceiling, and can keep piling on numbers. It's like skeleton out there for some lucky few. It sucks for football that Tom Brady has done all that he's done behind that line, because (he's great no doubt) he isn't in the class of "all-time great". I guess what I'm trying to say is, Kellen should be immensely improved. We should still get some kind of insurance in case he is in the class with those 2 aforementioned QBs who didn't make it. If KC really does suck, I'll be wrong and I'll eat crow.
That is just two I thought of off the top of my head. If you go back and look and research it I bet you find a ton more. I wouldn't go hanging my theory on it if I were you.
Do you really need proof that there have been Qbs that have failed with a good oline? Really? Do you actually think that all it takes to succeed at QB is a good oline? Sure it helps but it takes alot more than that as well, we havent seen anything from Clemens to suggest he has what it takes.
you are right vision, but at least you can hope there is an upside with Kellen. With chad there is no upside to look for, his best moments are behind him. it is sad, but true and its time to move on. Either its kellen or the next guy, and so on and so on this team cant keep using retreads at quaterback, I am sick of poor play from feeble quaterbacks.
completely agree with this post, I'm a fan of Pennington but I dont want to see him as the Jets starting qb again. Like you said it is time to move on with either Clemens or the next guy. I am fine and understand keeping him another year as the backup though. I think we will know how the FO feels about Clemens once the draft is over. If any of these reports are true about their interest in Brohm or Flacco it doesnt sound good for Clemens.
Why does every thread have to turn into QB debate? There are 21 other positions on the football field...last time I cheked we werent perfect at many of those eithr
