Mangini is pulling a Parcells this off-season

He cut the whole the oldest and closest the decline players on the OL first thing. He then went and drafted at the two most important OL positions.

Not only that...but we've had like 25 million to spend in the past 2 offseasons combined. This year (before cuts) I've heard we've got like 25+ million.

 

No we don't, there is alot of talent on this team. Alot of it has been misused, it's ridiculous that we are looking to get rid of our 1st rounders from just4 and 5 years ago. We can't keep losing the amount of talent that we have lost the past few offseasons, you find a way to make those players fit.

 

I think the Dolphins are in better shape. They have Bill Parcell leading the franchise & the Jets' have who ?:breakdance:

 

True.

The only successful coaches in NFL history have been proven ones. At 14-18 he's not quite Chuck Noll or Bill Walsh bad, but he's close. Mangini really has issues, and way we should resolve it is by making sure we get rid of him.

 

Cleaning house has to be done. This team has had a woeful lack of talent for 3 years now. They started gutting the team in year 1 but I think got too optimistic in year 2 and did not continue the cutting and replacing of players that was required.

Now that they realized the talent level stinks, they'll get back to the task of bringing in some talent and depth to the organization. At least I am hopeful, the signing of Callahan at least signals that the status quo of having one of the worst and least talented O-lines ever, will not be tolerated.

They also have to bring in some decent OLB's and such. I am hopeful that this offseason will bring at least 5+ new, more talented starters to this team. Not too mention badly needed depth because if this team has injuries, the horrendous talent level will really take effect.

Edit: The talent level can easily be boosted to an acceptable level as the difference between the bottom and the top in the NFL is not much in comparison to other sports.

 

Its easy to say that now, but after a 10-6 season where you made the playoffs and lost to the eventual super bowl champs by 3, why would you clean house?

Its much easier to remove what is now obvious dead weight after a 4-12 disaster of a season that was the '07 campaign.

 

5+ new starters and depth?

That's actually entirely possible of course, they did it in '06 with D'Brick, Leon, Mangold, Cotchery, and Poteat.

But to assume this regime just fired out this team was talentless is kind of throwing out anything positive they've done.

 

You can save your sarcastic bullshit on the haters.

I am not down on this Fo and staff.......... However you can not say they did a great job in 06 without mentioning some of the back steps they did in 07.

They also added in 06........ Dyson, who had a very good year until he got injured in Miami and was not the same player. They added Coleman as rookie draft pick (depth), they added both Smith's (again Depth). If Clemens pans out, which is a question mark at this point, they will have had a very successful 06..............

However, they did very little in 07 to get more talent on this team. Now you can argue that the Fa's available sucked and the draft was weak. You may be correct. This team took a step back regardless of what they were saddled with. Take the good with the bad..........

Edit: Their worst decision was Clarke. A used tackling dummy would have been a better option. I agree with gretting rid of Kendall. However, they knew he was a cancer and they did their best to get rid of him but their back up plan was terrible. Anybody but Clarke............

 

Yep he sure is. Thanks for point out that nugget of wisdom. I await for more amazing in depth info.

Are you really suggesting that becasue of Chad's health problems that they should have looked to move Vilma and D-Rob as well as dumping 4 or 5 other starters after the '06 season? A season where Chad started all 16 games and the team made the playoffs? What kind of message does that send the team?

 

The 2007 backstep did not come from anyone they acquired did they. Besides for BT, what new contract or player played poorly for us? Coleman was fine. Revis and Harris were kickass rookies. Jones was fine.

People are getting on them for moves they didn't make, not considering cap room or the situation at the time (and not in hindsight). Moves they didn't make can be fixed, they should be judged on the moves they did make.

The back steps came in the W-L record. I personally didn't think we'd be anything better than 8-8 this year (predictions on JI). A few lucky breaks and we could have won as many as one or two more games. We weren't going to be that good in '07 anyway.

True.

Well...the FA's did suck...they were expensive...we didn't have any cap space...and as far as major moves all of them were productive as Coleman, TJ, Revis, and Harris were 4 of the top 8 or whatever most productive Jets this year.

We didn't get less talented, we got more talented. It just so happens we weren't that talented to start with, and you're not going to cover every major weakness in 2 offseasons.

Who was available at the time that could have outplayed Clarke? That matters, doesn't it?

 

When you go 4-12 you have to take a realistic look at the quality of the players on your team. If all of your decisions (draft picks, free agents, resignings) were great you wouldn't be 4-12 in the first place. Swallowing your pride and admitting your mistakes helps you learn what you need to know to solve your problems. Getting rid of bloated contracts and players that don't fit your team frees up resources and allows you to build around your core players.

We need to make sure that our star players (Dbrick, Mangold, Rhodes, Revis, Harris) have the talent around them to develop and succeed. Looking at some of our starters last year it is clear that action needs to be taken.

Problem 1. Victor Hobson is too slow to play linebacker in a 3-4, let alone start. He leaves as a free agent, problem solved. Who cares where he was drafteed?

Problem 2. D-Rob will be the highest paid defensive lineman in the NFL next year but the coaches have him pegged as a DE in a 3-4 (a role he has never had before) because they have concluded that he can't play DT. We need to trade him to a 4-3 team that thinks they can use his pass rushing skills.

Problem 3. Vilma stunk badly last year, is small for our 3-4 defense, and is coming off an injury. He has also demanded a trade right before his contract year (this guy will leave and we will get nothing at the end of the year). We may not get fair value until he takes the field to prove that he is healthy but I would entertain reasonable offers. Solution, he must go before the trade deadline.

Problem 4. Chad lost his starting job and will never have the strength in his shoulder that he had before his injuries. He makes too much money for a backup and desires to start for an NFL team. Solution, smart team player but we need to get what we can for him as we have found our QB. I have nothing but respect for Chad but we need to move on.

Problem 5 & 6. Clarke and Clement got our QBs killed. Solution, cut them loose.

Problem 7. Dyson who looked good in the past had a horrible year and was outplayed by Hank Poteat. Solution is to get rid of Dyson and possibly Barrett as well.

Problem 8. Bryan Thomas had very poor produciton this year. He seemed to react badly to the team's failure. With his contract we can't move him so our best bet is to wait and see how he does this year. Hopefully if we upgrade Hobson teams can't just run away from Thomas.

After getting rid of those players we can see who our starters are by default before the start of free agncy and the draft. Now we can make better decisions about where to use our valuable cap space and draft picks. Here is the lineup as is after removing these eight starters (Poteat is a free agent and Dyson did not start but you get the idea):

QB Clemens (need a backup)
RB Thomas / Washington (poor production, could be OL?)
FB ???
WR Coles (complaining but too valuable to move)
WR Cotchery (still need third WR with skills)
TE Baker (poor production)
LT Fergeson - stud
LG ???
C Mangold - stud
RG Moore (should be upgrded but not a priority)
RT ???

DE Coleman (just got here)
DT Pouha (can he handle the load?)
DE Ellis (may be regressing)
OLB Thomas (perhaps he will do better if surrounded with more talent)
ILB Barton (on shaky ground)
ILB Harris - stud
OLB ???
CB Revis - stud
CB ???
S Rhodes
S Elam (just got here, backup material?)

Can you honestly say that we need to pay D-Rob, Vilma, or Pennington this year when we could get draft picks for them?

 

I am not disputing the FA's stunk. However you did not watch this team, if you think certain area's did not take a giant step back. The offensive line was terrible a good portion of the year. It was part and parcel to the 4-12 record as it afforded Clemens and Pennington zero time to make a play. In fact the line was decidedly worse then 06.

Not to mention that the OLB's on this team both took a step back. They provided zero pass rush and need I tell you where the pass rush is supposed to come from in a 3-4?

Never ever did I say I am a personnel guy. Never ever did I complain about letting Kendall go. But please be objective. Clarke was the worst position player in the entire NFL last year. So my mothers old douche bag would be a solid replacement for him.

To dovetail with your comment that the Jets got more talented in 07 vs. 06. That may be correct. However, on the O-line they were decidedly less talented by virtue of having Clarke back there.

Edit: I am fully aware of how lacking the Jets were talent wise when Mangini and Tannenbaum got here. They inherited a roster that was just brutal. Like I said they could have done a better job in 07. 07 is over with and lets see what they do in 08. So far they have been fine.

 

You are forgetting the year when we were dominated on both sides of the line by the Raiders in the playoffs. Chad was healthy but looked like a deer caught in the headlights from all the abuse he took. Since then he did seem to get injured every year.

 

Why can't they just get Rogers, move Robertson to end, keep Colman for dept, keep Vilma, then draft Gholston. Defense should really improve since Robertson will get one on one, if not Rogers should benefit, Vilma definitely will with Rogers in the middle, not to mention we would have two quality ends with Ellis and Robertson. Oh don't let me forget about Gholston rushing the passer. Hell we could even spend some money and get Samuel. Top ten defense anyone.

 

Actually, I think 07 will be more of the fluke. I am of the opinion the leadership will learn more from 07 then it ever would from 06. That will turn out to be a very good thing. We shall see as we will get a glimpse of what/if they learned in a few days......................

 

Yes, the line was bad in '07. Thats been beaten to death. NO ONE saw it coming. In '06 the O-line was much further ahead of the D-line, and with our limited cap space we chose a solid young 3-4 DE over the offensive guards who got 19 million in guarantees.

Yea that sucks. They also came off of very good seasons in '06 at the same positions. It was a bad idea to switch BT from ROLB to LOLB, but again, who predicted Thomas and Hobson would both go from 8.5 and 6 sacks to 2 sacks a piece?

And what OLBs should have been drafted or signed? Who could we have afforded to sign? Keep in mind our cap situation last offseason.

Yes, and he's already been released. Who should we have signed over him once we found out he sucked? Cause he didn't look all too bad up until the season started and he got significantly playing time.

And Clarke was there because there was very little to no talent at the OL position at the time a starter at LG became a need.

I think big picture we agree. I think I just see more competence in Mangini and Tanny than many others.