http://www.hotfootblog.com/2008/01/25/livan-close-to-deal-with-mets/ Probably not the pitcher everyone is hoping for, but I like this move. Livan is what he is...an innings eater. It creates a solid fall back plan of all fails in acquiring Santana or any other pitcher.
of course they are. besides being an "innings eater" livan is also a pretty bad pitcher. so not only do you have to suffer through his 2 baserunners an inning, and the fact he strikes out less people then a knuckleballer, but you get that awfulness for 200+ innings! what a steal!
Hmm ... yet another mediocre-at-best player who is very unlikely to increase the chances of the team winning. I've never understood the fascination with "innings eaters" - why is it so much better to have one guy give you 200 innings of a 5.00 ERA than to have two or three guys do it? How does that make the team better? These are the bottom of the rotation/spot starter/long relief guys anyway - who cares if they get 5 starts in a year or 10? At least if it's a kid you're giving those chances to you might find out he's good - there's no chance of that happening with Hernandez. I've always thought that the pro-Hispanic bias accusations against Omar were pretty overblown, but frankly, a signing like this would just bring them back again.
He'll take pressure off of an overtaxed bullpen. Only Tommy G. gave us over 200 innings last year (200 1/3). I agree with you when you say that you'd rather see what the kids can do than a mediocre veteran, but sometimes you need your starter to go 7 or 8 innings and give the bullpen a break. This never happened with the Mets last year. And kids can't be counted on for that. Livan can provide that, and it is valuable. This signing certainly doesn't put us over the top, but I'll take Livan over Kyle Lohse any day.
The 7 or 8 innings are only useful if he is good during those innings, I remember the last "innings eater" that we had was Steve Trachsel, the absolutely last thing that we need is something like that fiasco again.
The last thing I want to do here is back up Steve Trachsel, but he did win 15 games with good run support. I'd still take Livan over Pelfrey any day. Feel like anytime I watch Pelfrey, he goes like 5 innings, 3-4 earned runs. He's brutal.
With Pelfrey there is at least hope for upside, and I'd take that over the aging veteran that the front office throws out there no matter how bad he gets, Trachsel won 15 games with an ERA close to 5, any semidecent pitcher could have won 20 games with that run support.
Not to get off topic here but Trachsel was anything but an innings eater in 06, he only averaged 5 1/2 innings a start that year. That's slightly higher then Pelfrey's 5 1/3 last year. Trachsel sucks and Livan sucks, that's really the only thing they have in common. The biggest problem I have with acquiring Livan(other then his aforementioned suckiness) is if they Mets do get him, then knowing them they'll be like "DONE, pitching problem solved" and pencil Livan in for his 200 innings no matter how bad he is. While if they start out with Pelfrey and he sucks then they'll consider other options.
Trachsel got worse as the years went on, so he couldn't stay for the innings but typically he was exactly what we are about to get in Livan now and that wasn't good. We don't need 200 innings of 5+ ERA
Sure, Livan is a relatively good innings eater. But Omar has to do whatever he can to land Santana. I'm a Yankees fan and I was hoping to get him. However, the more I've thought about it, I'd like to stick with the kids. If I were a Mets fan, I wouldn't be too happy with Livan, especially when you're the frontrunner for arguably the greatest pitcher in the game today.
If you can eat innings, you'll never be out of work. 2 good years in Montreal and Livan Hernandez is still seen as some sort of decent pitcher.
ugh this just sums up my life as a sports fan. I start the offseason with hopes of Santana and end it with the signing of Livan. I hate sports.
This to me is the entire point. Say what you will about his last three starts, but through September 14 Glavine had an ERA of 3.88 and averaged more than 6 IP per start. Those are what I call worthwhile innings. Why should I be happy with Hernandez pitching 6 innings and giving up 3-4 runs every start? (He won't average 7 - he hasn't done that since 2005.) If Pelfrey pitches 5 and gives up 3 (roughly the same ERA), having the 10th guy on the staff pitch the extra inning or two will not tax the bullpen in any important way. Meanwhile, maybe Pelfrey will actually learn how to pitch.
Are you really comfortable with Maine(191 IP)-Perez(177)-Pedro(who knows?)-Duque(147)-Pelfrey/Humber(who knows?) Maine may me able to increase his workload; Perez throws too many pitches to get past the sixth inning; how can you count on full seasons from Duque or Pedro, and who knows about the kids? The fatal flaw with this rotation is that no one can get to the seventh inning. And there are two huge injury risks and two kids. Like it or not, there is a need for someone who is a sure thing. That list, right now, consists of Livan, Lohse, and I think Freddy Garcia. Take your pick. Count me among those who wish to trade the entire farm system for Santana. Failing that, this is a necessary Plan B.
No, the fatal flaw of this rotation is that there is no one who can get to the 7th inning pitching effectively - not the same thing, and not something that Hernandez is likely to do a damn thing about. We are about 3 weeks from pitchers and catchers, and at this point this has possibly been the worst offseason in Mets history (given where the team was in the top of the 9th of the NLCS in 2006, where they were with 17 games to go in the 2007 season, and where they are right now, it is certainly the worst two back-to-back).
Livan isn't that bad. He would fall into 4th in the rotation right? That is where he belongs. The Mets have good bats, He can win 12 games this year atleast.
Pedro Maine Perez El Duque Livan If the Mets get both he and Santana, then my guess would be that El Duque heads to long relief, which I would prefer anyway.
