Since the boards seem to be filled with anti-Clemens sentiment it has got me to really thinking about his performance and what can realistically be expected of him as a rookie. Now, I do not care how Peyton Manning or Brady or Marino started, they were in different situations. What I looked at was how QBs that are not at the top of the pile after a couple seasons are more are thought of. And I keep winding up on Eli Manning. Eli has played almost 4 full seasons now. And his performance is, well, bad. He is only averaging 6.21 yards a throw, has a 1:1 interception ratio and a rating of 70. On a team with a good to very good offensive line, a solid running game, good defense and some playmakers to catch the ball, that performance is horrible. Yet, no one really is asking in earnest for Eli's head. All you hear (on Sirius for example) is something like: "Eli is a young QB, and he is still learning. We do not yet know if he is going to be great or just really good." Well, he is neither great, nor really god, nor even average for that matter. He is bad, and he has 4 seasons behind him. But Eli ALWAYS gets the benefit of the doubt. He is treated like a franchise QB, when he has done nothing to warrant it. As I see it, he has tow things going for him: 1. He was the 1st pick in the draft 2. His last name is the same as a Top 5 all time QB BIG DEAL. At some point, he has to perform, and he has not done. And the CHad argument does not really work either. The Giants make the playoffs in spite of Eli, he hurts them more than helps them. But everyone is super patient with Eli. He'll learn they say. He'll be a top QB some day. Forget his play on the field he will get it some day. But Jets fans here want to instantly bail on Kellen, who has started less than half a season, or said another way 50 less than Eli. And Kellen's perfomance is not all that far behind Eli, who has a better supporting cast, especially OL. Now Kellen may not ever get "IT", just as Eli clearly still does not get "it", but why can we not be a little patient with Kellen like everyone is with Eli? From an upside Kellen seems to have all the intangibles. He can make any throw, he has shown the ability to comeback and do well in the two minute drill, he has command of the huddle, and he moves well. He has never seem to be intimidatred except for the first series against Baltimore. His situation reminds me a LOT of the Drew Brees situation. Living in San Diego I have witnessed that one myself. Brees was never really shown any patience or allowed to develop. In fact, if Rivers had not held out he may not have had his breakout season at all. Both Brees and Kellen are a bit shorter than the ideal chalkboard QB, and Brees played quite poorly for a while. But he has turned out to be a Top 5 or 6 QB in the NFL. We need to be patient with Kellen and let him grow. If ELi gets the benefit of the doubt into his fourth season, than certainly Kelllen should get at least one. He is not a first round pick, nor a Manning, but really does it matter. Why is everyone so eager to dump him and start over? The "Eli Manning" double standard bugs the crap out of me.
Lots of Giants fans have had enough of Eli. I don't think there's a double standard. Anyone who says to give him more time is probably looking at guys like Tavaris Jackson and Kyle Boller and thinking that it could be worse.
living in the ny metro area, i catch some giants game. eli is a lot better than he is given credit for. his guys drop so many passes, it is like mccareins ia all over the place im not saying eli is a superstar, but the giants shouldn't be looking for a qb
You can make a strong argument that the Giants would be real super bowl contenders with just a good QB instead of what they are getting from Manning. If I was a Giant's fan I'd be calling for his head at this point.
not true If you are listening to Sirius it is a national show. As someone who lives in NJ I can tell you many Giants fans are sick of Eli. The guy really doesnt have the IT you spoke of. When it comes to KC Im not sure what to say and thats not a good thing. From what I have seen so far he will be an average to below average NFL QB. Now I'm only taking the times Ive actually seen him have time to throw (which isnt much). He has a good arm (not great) but is very iffy with his accuracy. IMO they need to focus on the Oline and get a new OC in here.
Well, Eli had a great game tonight, but I agree with others that many Giants fans and media types have expressed plenty of doubts about him in the past couple of years, so I think any notion of a double standard is ridiculous.
A lot of the Giant fans think Eli is terrible. Most sportcasters agree that he is an average QB at best but since the Giants traded away so much to get him they are stuck with him. The Giants don't bring anyone to compete with him so there is no QB controversy and Eli knows he's their guy. I give them probably one more year of that before they start bringing in some competition.
I said it before and I'll SCREECH it again . . . Eli Manning is the lord of the dufuses and the emperor of his own anus.
As bad as he is, if you watch him game in and game out he does make positive game changing plays against very good teams all the time. Now he usually gives them back and has long stretches of terrible play, but the ability to compete against playoff caliber defenses is there. I'm sure hard core Giants fans are frustrated by him but I find it comical the bashing he takes on this and other Jets boards since he is clearly better than any QB we have had since Vinny before his injury in 99.
Most QB's are shit as rookies or their first 5-10 starts. It is very rare that a QB can come in and light it up. I started a thread recently that compared KC first 6 starts to those of some of the other great or acclaimed QB's in the league. You would have thought I was declaring KC the second coming of the messiah. All that was being pointed was that not many young QB's get it right out of the box and you can not tell at this point how good/bad he will be. If someone has made up their mind he stinks well it is their right of course but it is very much premature. I guess given the history of the Jets, most of the fans have zero patience and want KC to pick apart the NFL from the get go or declare he is a bust.
i have got news for you folks...first off i do not think manning is bad at all......he just needs an offense suited to him and that means BIG receivers and a good TE/FB receiving threat.... the giants back up lorenzen is a good QB believe it or not.....i am not sure why other teams have not given him a shot to be a starter. jil
Frustrated pretty much sums it up. And enticed. It's not like we're all hanging around for the potential that's never been shown. He has been great. He's just also been awful. But yeah, the whole premise of this thread is ridiculous because last time I checked everybody hates him.
Look, from what we've seen Clemens can make all the throws an NFL QB need to make..We can all see that pretty clearly..Its a matter of GAME SITUATIONS everyone and that only comes through experience and playing..Watching film, learning , evaluation and getting synchronized with your receivers. I say the kid shows plenty of promise and I for one will be looking forward to KC becoming a very good NFL QB BUT I understand there are bumps along the way!
The Vinny analogy is a good one in terms of ability. Maybe a few years down the road he'll step up and actually lead a team. It's a 50/50 proposition and you know he'll only do it if the Giants trade him or cut him.
The only thing I would disagree with is that I think Pennington in 2002 was much better than Manning has ever been. The only other point about Manning that is sometimes raised that I disagree with (although it hasn't been raised here) is the idea that he will naturally become consistently good (that with experience he'll learn not to do the mind-bogglingly stupid things he does). I personally don't see that at all. After 4 years, I think he is what he is.
