I give you credit for trashing it most people here thought it was a heist. I thought it was a solid if not spectacular move simply because we didn't lose a pick and stayed in the same round of the draft.
Well to be fair this season is a little bit worse then most people expected. I predicted 7-9 wins this season and with some breaks maybe similar to last year. Well no need to rehash the problems. It is the "same old Jets" mentality people that have turned on Mangini. I think many realize that this team was woefully lacking in talent when he took over. He has brought along a bunch more younger players then the prior regime. It usually takes players 3-4 years to really show their mettle in a professional league (absent superstar talent of course). Mangini has shown great promise in many areas and some areas of great concern. Hopefully he can improve on the concern areas while keep the promising areas intact. If he can do that this team will be fine.
Not sure. Mangini did a tremendous job last year, best coaching job by a Jets coach since Parcells. I think he's done an abysmal job this year. Team has taken a big step back, when on paper, it shouldn't have. I think Herm basically did what he should his first 2 years. He took a 9-7 non playoff team to a 10-6 playoff team. Next year he won the division and a playoff game. That year he did have a young QB playing as good as anyone in the league, but he also had a banged up Curtis Martin, and an aging defense I'd say it's even. Mangini overachieved one year and underachieved the other. Herm basically did what's expected both years.
I liked the TJ trade, I was excited about it, and for the third time on this thread, i like TJ being here. some of you guys must be a little dense, which accounts for your inability to recognize how the CS has screwed up this season. There's no hindsight about that. I rarely get into second guessing trades and draft picks. I pretty much accept that in most cases the CS brings in the players they want on their team. It's then up to them to coach them and get the max out of their talent. With few exceptions, i havent seen that happening here. Half a season on defense. Half a season on offense last year. BFD. I like Revis, and harris, and mangold. They've drafted pretty well, but that is about all I can really think of them doing well right now. And while I am happy to discuss these positive players they've brought in, it doesnt outweigh a lot of the negatives they have exhibited along the way. If the coaching, the gameplans, and the halftime adjustments were better, they might have won closer to the 8 or 9 games i thought they would. If you dont think they got outcoached in most of the games this season, i dont know what you're watching. If anything, i overestimated the coaching ability of this staff going into the season. If that's all they have in their bag of tricks, and dont do a better job coaching next year, i think they'll be gone shortly afterwards.
Under Herm most of us felt that we were only one or two players away from being true contenders. I agree with some of you that Herm inherited a pretty damn good team and basically turned us into perrenial underachievers. With regards to the way both teams are being run, with two different goals in mind, I'd have to say that the jury is still out. Herm's intention was to turn the Jets from underachievers into a SB champ, and Mangini was brought in to clean up a mess and rebuild. Niether did a good job of either during the first two seasons, so I'm going with a draw (not the play.. ugh.. flashbacks).
Herm inherited a team that hadn't seen the playoffs in 3 years and had lost 6 of 9 to miss in 2000. Mangini inherited a team 1 year removed from being a kick awayfrom the AFC title game. The ONLY reason we stunk in '05 was b/c of injuries. The FO did a good job of getting some key young guys in here and we were as talented, if not more, than the '04 squad heading into 2006. As much as I like Herm and think he is a GOOD HC I STILL think Mangini is going to be better. He's not yet but he will be, people forget this is EM's 2nd season as a HC, I believe he got a little full of himself this offseason and changed some things that worked fr no reason other than thinking everything he'd do would turn to gold. He'll learn, we'll get better and this won't be a debate a few years from now.
Patriots fans would gladly give up a few superbowl wins if only Bill Belichick were more media-friendly.
Bottom line is I know Herm is a terrible coach I need to give Mangini another two years before I can make a fair determination on him.
What have you see out of him this season that suggests that last year was anything but a fluke? I've seen the same irrational strategic maneuvers that worked half the time and failed half the time last season (e.g. onsides kick to start the 2nd half against the Bears), only this season they are failing the more appropriate 80% of the time. I've seen the same half-assed personnel use that ignored reality in favor of fantasy (e.g playing D-Rob at NT, going with outright holes on the offensive line) leading to subpar results in the units involved, albeit they worked 50/50 last season and have utterly failed this year. I've seen the same generally clueless media relations, in which EVERYTHING is a closely guarded secret not just the important things. But probably most importantly I've seen the Jets collapse into a fetal curl that very closely mimics Mangini's demeanor in the post game press conferences. He may have an act III to go on after the first two but it's really looking doubtful to me at this point. He ran out of boxing movies...
Would he be fair to say that whoever wins the jets-kc game is the best coach? I think Mangini is. At least he has potential, Herm got nothing. I would like to see what happens if he gets another three good O linemen and a big NT. I say, if because you don't know what he will do. I have learned to expect anything now. It seems that when he plays Mosley or Pouha at NT, the defense plays better. He should move DRob at DE, Mosly and Pouha at NT, and Ellis and Coleman should split time at the other DE position. No, Mangini got to keep playing DRob at NT even if he plays like the worst NT in the league. How an NFL head coach can keep doing stupid things like that is beyond....
Herm at least had a small chance to be a Tony Dungy type coach coming off of his second season. Not likely, but a chance. Mangini really looks badly overmatched at the NFL level right now and there are so many things that are wrong, or likely to be wrong in the near future, with the team that I don't see how he is going to get back in the saddle and cope with it all. Can you imagine what would have happened this season if the Jets had the injury bug that just about every team goes through every third or fourth season? The Jets would have collapsed into a steaming pile of sh*t faster than we'd have believed possible.
It seams to me that Mangini has issues assembling talent, and Herm has issues using the talent that he has.
Well, let's see which team improves the most next year. Us or Miami. That will answer all the nonsense questions once and for all.
Two points First, Herm had his in game issues, but the Jets numerous 2nd half collapses this year are an indictment of Mangini's game coaching ability also. Second, this last place schedule stuff is way way overblown. Ever since the NFL went to four four team divisions, 14 of the 16 games are the same every season for each team in the division. Each team plays: 6 games in its division (two against each team) 4 against a division in its conference on a rotating basis 4 against a division in the other conference on a rotating basis 2 games - one against each team in the other divisions in its conference that it is not playing on a rotating basis that finished in the same place the previous season. For example, each team in the AFC East this year is playing 14 common games - 6 games in the division, 4 against the NFC East, and 4 against the AFC North. Then each team is playing one team from the AFC South and West based on where they finished last year. The Pats finished first last year and are playing the first place teams from those divisions - the Colts and Chargers. The Jets finished second and are playing the second place teams from those divisions - the Titans and Chiefs. And so on. When you figure that 50% of teams in the NFL don't repeat as playoff teams, there really is no way to determine who has a harder schedule until the season plays out. The second or third place teams in those two non-common games could be better than the first place teams. The Jets schedule this year has not been that hard. They played only 6 games against likely playoff teams - two against the Pats, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Dallas and the Giants. Four of those six were at home. I don't consider the Giants to be a very good playoff team and Pittsburgh and Cleveland don't exactly scare anybody either. That means they played three tough games this year. Last year they played 4 playoff teams, but those games included two against the Pats and one each against the two SB teams. Not much difference in schedules.
Herm had a healthy Pennington no surgery a playoff caliber back up QB, Curtis Martin a healthy Mawae and talent all over the field. This year Thomas Jones was hurt in preseason with an injury that usually takes a year for full recovery, Chad was hurt in game one, Vilma had been ineffective before needing surgery and Coles has not been the same player since concussion No. ? at the end of last year in Miami. This team is in total rebuild and veteran players who were suppossed to carry the load have not been healthy. Herm ran this team into the ground and has now ran KC into the ground. The best players on our team are the players Mangini has brought in. Herm is a proven douche, Mangini has another year or two to prove his worth.
The Jets have been one of the healthiest team in the NFL this year. Injuries are no excuse the teams' performance. Every team is missing a starter or two and has banged up players at this point in the season. The Jets lost Miller, who has not been missed, Vilma for half a year and Coles for a handful of games.
It's like Parcells said "if you are going to cook the dinner the might as well let you shop for the groceries". Now I'm not saying Mangini should be GM but it's clear him and Tannenbaum are on the same page so let them get the players they want in here first then lets see what we can do. You don't hire a 3-4 coach to play the 4-3 so I have no problem with Mangini sticking wih the 3-4. At least as he fills in the right personel to run his defense the key guys like Revis, Harris, and Rhodes will have experience in it. There is always going to be a transition period when it comes to change like this so better to transition and learn the defense at the same time rather than bring in the players you want then switch and you have to wait a year before the team is even comfotable running it. On some other points you bring up. Why do you care what Mangini does with the media. They are going to kiss his @ss when we win and rip him when we aren't regardless so the less they know the better. I love the secrecy and coming over from Belichicks camp what did you expect. Also if things worked last year why not try them again. Mangini is a young coach so of course he is going to make mistakes. You have to give him a chance to improve. Thats why I give him two more years no matter what. By then he should have the team he wants in here and we should at least see if they are headed in the right direction. I bet if you were a Brown fan while Belichick was coaching there you would have been calling for his head as well. I'm not happy with what I have seen this year but I am going to show a little patience with this staff.
