then why did you even bring manning and palmer into it? like i said: THIS WAS/IS A STUPID THREAD. you used unsucessful beginnings(manning, palmer) to show clemens needed more time. you did this without showing all the others who have had sucessful careers from the get go. i guess we could sum up the original thread by saying..."miamipuck believes clemens needs more time", and left the pointless statistics out. o.k. i get it wonderful thread puck! golf claps galore!!!!!!!!! it does appear that you are backing up on your original intent, to slap all those armchair GM's.
Like I said Clemens has shown a flash here and there but certainly nothing to make me think he is going to be special. Yea the tools suck but I remeber Richard Caster a Jets WR who made the pro bowl three times I think? His hands made McCariens hands look good but Namath bounced enough balls off of them down the field that enough of them stuck to get him into the pro bowl.
The Jets played Caster mostly at TE not WR, and his hands were average to good compared to most TE's of the time. He was also very fast for a TE. He could get deep for Namath and with Barkum and later Walker he gave the Jets an extra deep option.
not mad at all. it just seems stupid that when you disagree, with some on this board, they instantly call you a troll for not agreeing with them.
Woohooo. So you entire point of your first reply was to follow me around as usual and take away from the real intent of the thread. As always the real story is about how you can foil my attempts to prove how smart I am. Thanks buddy, I greatly admire your attempts to bring some balance in my life. I am curious but you fail to answer this what does bringing up Dan Marino's first 6 games have to do with KC? This is a "Did we give KC enough time to evaluate thread?" Again I know the urge to troll is so great you can't help yourself. Seriously try for a minute and answer the last question.
O-line is more of a factor IMO than WRs/playmakers. Manning at least wasn't murdered his first season. The Cowboys went and built the best O-line of the 90's once they realized Aikman was getting killed back there. The Bengals had a great O-line when they put Palmer in. Anderson has kicked ass this year with Winslow and Edwards, but he's also been sacked less than almost every QB in the NFL. Hasselback had his best season when his running game and O-line had their best seasons. Roethlisberger was asked to be more of a game manager than anything early in his career, but when you combine a good offensive unit with a talented QB he was still making plays. A QBs growth depends as much on the team around him as it does on his talent. Kellen has been tough, mobile, has shown a strong arm, the offense moved more with him behind center, he knows the system...yea he needs to work on accuracy but I bet if we fix this team around him alluva sudden Clemens has the "it" factor that always magically appears when a QB is placed in a system he knows with a team that can play well.
His hands were awful and he was basically a third WR even though he lined up at TE sometimes and split W sometimes. He was huge fast and had stone hands. Namath couldn't help throwing the ball to him he was so big and so fast but balls used to bounce off his hands all the time. Barkum also played both WR and TE, much better hands than Caster.
i guess that all depends on how you want to spin this as well. you made up the stupid thread, with manning and palmer. i just added pennington and asked why you didnt use him for reference? so if chad and marino mean nothing neither do any of your other stupid stat references. i also guess any time i reply to anyone, i'm following you around. i'm not trying to attempt to disprove how football smart you are, to that ,you dont need my help. the basis of your original post was to shine light on clemens inabilities with statistical proof to leave him in as starter, which shows your urge to make threads or posts that prove your beliefs without showing all the facts. after i submit this, i will re-post my first reply to the original thread, so you can see, i'm not trying to follow you around.....are you paranoid or something?
LOL I know you never follow me around. Please dude you are a complete stalker. I know my post is so retardedly stupid. Thanks if it so monumentally stupid, Why did you bother posting in it? Because is it makes you feel smart? I mean we can all tell your high powered intellect from your replies in this thread. I mean your superiority just shines right through. Again how does using 2 QB's that came in right away and did well in any way shape or form shed light on QB's that struggled off the bat?
Let me see if I can explain this in the way that I read it, because I don't believe that you're being willfully belligerent. The statistics used were chosen because these great quarterbacks appeared very average in their first six starts. This anecdotally "proves" (although it really should be a given), that six starts simply isn't enough time to evaluate a player's talent. There is no real way to tell how he is going to develop and learn from his experiences. Even though quarterbacks in the past may have played well in their first six starts, not all quarterbacks do. That is in no way the same as saying all quarterbacks who start off their careers with bad statistics go on to do well or that all quarterbacks who do well start off badly. All that it "proves" is that sometimes, good quarterbacks can start off badly. So no, the statistics aren't meaningless, or that arbitrary.
it shows as much as your original idea of clemens, manning and palmer, being in the same boat. for every all-pro that climbs out of QB HELL, there are a ton more that dont get out. my reference atleast shows the opposite of your original post, some QB's come out firing and dont miss. atleast until their careers are altered somehow. marino continued after major injuries, but he is also one of the greatest passing QB's to ever draw in a breath of fresh air. pennington's early career makes clemens look like a high schooler, at this point. so how did your comparison shed light as for reasoning to leave clemens in as per statistical proof? clemens statistics say he sucks! anything else?
The reason Clemens should remain in is because we don't have an alternative future on the roster. Sad as this may sound, if Clemens doesn't improve the Jets are likely to spiral down fire the coach in a year or two draft another QB and look a lot like we did through a good part of the 70's.
I wish KC would have showed more than he did in his 6 starts so far. Let's please not forget that KC is 2-4, Chad 1-7. Chad gets credit for this recent Patriots loss, as he should. In watching the games, I haven't seen any implication that Clemens will be the next best anything. He should be, however, granted permission to further his development for our teams evaluation, as evidenced by the OP's cited stats. The lines are the center of the teams, and our O-Line is bottom 10 in the league, with only 2 good players on the entire unit. Also, the WR's are hurt. Factor this in with questionable playcalling by Brian Schott. KC's further experience + better pass blocking + better run blocking + healed WRs + increased running game that results from better run blocking + less "Chad" play-calling = a better chance for KC to prove to us that he can play the position, a chance that a lot of you are too fast to take away.
While that is true. It is still way too early to say whether he is going to be Good,average or suck. Is he going to be a superstar? I think not but at least give him some time to prove himself. Again that was the intent of the link, then again you are more than smart enough to realize that.
He is going to get the time beacuse that is the only plan right now. If Clemens doesn't get better Mangini and Tannenbaum will be gone in a year or two and the next GM/HC will deal with solving the QB problem. Clemens is the man, I hope they plan on surrounding him with great talent and a great Offensive QB coach and OC.
Well they should start by getting an NFL caliber LG and RT and a WR that can take the pressure off of Coles and Cotchery. A solid QB coach would not hurt either. Getting rid of Schott at this point I do not think is going to happen.
